I got scammed on Upwork and Upwork won't remove the scammer's profile

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36480411

by silexia • 3 years ago

30 11 3 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I hired Aaron H. (under the category Structural Engineering) in Upwork to do $6,000 in design and engineering work for me. After I paid him, he refused to finish the work he had agreed to do. I sued him and obtained a legal judgement against him. I provided a copy of my legal judgement to Upwork, but they took no action and continue to keep Ryan / Aaron Hoover of Ceed Civil (his business) on the platform.

I have seen a lot of very scammy tactics by this Hoover guy as well. He changes his first name and his business name to try to hide negative reviews. I posted the legal judgement to his Google My Business profile, but he keeps replying that it is for some other business.

I am very surprised Upwork has chosen to keep Hoover / Ceed Civil on the platform.

rolph• 3 years ago

you still have options dependent on time n money.

sue upwork.

contact a police detective

contact IRS

maybe they [upwork] know all about it and want to trap em , not chase em away.

rationalist• 3 years ago

contact IRS

That's an interesting suggestion. Presumably Upwork is already issuing a tax form and providing it the IRS.

I think the IRS only cares that the income is reported, not whether the income comes from legal or illegal means.

i_have_an_idea• 3 years ago

Sorry to read about your experience with this person and I think you made the right decision taking the legal route to address the issue, and it's important that justice is served. The enforcement of the judgment you obtained is essential, as it holds individuals and businesses accountable for their actions and commitments.

However, while your frustration with Upwork's inaction is understandable, the decision to ban Aaron H. or Ceed Civil from the platform or any other business listing should ideally be in line with the legal framework. If the court's judgment mandates that his business be prohibited from operating on certain platforms or in general, then it would be fair and appropriate for platforms like Upwork to enforce that.

On the other hand, if the court has not explicitly ordered such a ban, it may not be entirely fair to expect platforms to take this action solely based on individual judgments. Platforms typically have their internal policies and processes to deal with such situations, and it is crucial that they adhere to the rule of law.

ipaddr2• 3 years ago

You pay when the work is completed or hourly. You verify the work and issue payment when completed. How did you endup paying before the work started?

Why didn't you sue upwork?

silexia• 3 years ago

Ceed Civil asked that I pay them off of Upwork to avoid Upwork's fees. I stupidly went along with it because I wanted things to go well with him. I told Upwork about this, and they still keep Ceed Civil on the platform... even though Upwork was also ripped off by this Hoover guy.

ipaddr2• 3 years ago

Why would you pay them everything upfront? And why would you expect upwork to ban them for a project that didn't happen on their platform?

How was upwork ripped off by this guy? Wouldn't you be as responsible for ripping them off by moving the project off the platform? You haven't been banned but are demanding someone else is?

You have a judgement against the developer so money should be recoverable but you seen unable to collect so you are trying to hurt the person instead?

Stop, you are wasting more time / money on a mistake. You originally had a $6,000 idea. Keep focused on getting that built. This is a distraction and your success depends on moving on.

talldatethrow• 3 years ago

I presume this engineer is licensed in his state. Contact that licensing board in that state?

emmydee• 3 years ago

No, upwork didn't scam you. Aaron H scammed you after cleverly leading you outside their platform for payments.

You have no grounds to sue upwork. In fact, they have grounds to ban you based on their TOS that you agreed to.

Ceed Civil asked that I pay them off of Upwork to avoid Upwork's fees. I stupidly went along with it because I wanted things to go well with him

This here is the issue. It'd have helped if you actually read and understood their TOS, then you'll realize they have no reason to ban the freelancer as you transacted outside their platform

https://www.upwork.com/legal#terms-of-use

Upwork's TOS clearly states the following (see section 3.5, line starting with "You can’t go around us"

3.5 Other uses that aren’t allowed
Upwork relies on technology and trust – here’s how we maintain those things. You can’t copy, share or give away your account. You can’t have multiple accounts and you can’t sell, trade or give your account to anyone else without our permission.
You can’t go around us. In particular, you can’t talk to another user or ask for or share a way to get in touch - a means of direct contact - outside of Upwork before you’ve agreed to a service contract. This means you can’t add your contact details to a job post, your profile, communications or other content. (There are exceptions to this for Enterprise clients.)

ggwp992• 3 years ago

I agree since Upwork has no proof of payment and does not have a proof of work being done or not unfortunately.

jainankit9• 3 years ago

Sorry about your experience but someone took advantage of this loophole. I wish karma will hit him soon.

ggwp992• 3 years ago

Rule number 1: Never pay upfront, best option should be to charge hourly and pay daily. See that work is being done then pay. We too had to learn the hard way but consider it an expensive lesson.

I got scammed on Upwork and Upwork won't remove the scammer's profile

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