Visual Studio 11 Beta released

http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/11/

by bratao • 14 years ago

55 55 14 years ago

acqq11• 14 years ago

Highlights of the less obvious but the most serious problems:

- By intentional design(+), it can't produce an executable which runs on Windows XP, because "you" really don't want the applications that run on the 50% of all PC's of the world,

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Windows-XP-Windows-7-market...

- Keyboard macros are removed, because "you don't need them."

Oh yes, and they changed the color theme to distract the attention of the developers population from the mentioned serious problems.

Thank you, Microsoft.

+) They had to remove the code which already existed in their DLLs to achieve this and also to stop shipping you the procedure to build your own versions of the same DLLs.

pavlov2• 14 years ago

XP is over ten years old. To develop for ancient platforms, one can keep using the ancient tools.

Apple is actually worse in this regard, because a copy of Xcode from 2005 produces binaries that don't work at all on new Macs anymore. Windows 8 can at least run anything developed using Visual Studio 6 on Windows XP.

acqq11• 14 years ago

You are mixing up something. It's not about old VS code not running on "new PCs" it's about the newly compiled executables not running on 50% of PCs right now!

"Windows XP Embedded or Windows Embedded Standard 2009, both based on Windows XP Pro binaries will get security updates until Jan 8, 2019"

If 50% of all PCs run Windows XP as we speak, do you really consider it "ancient?" Do you think they will really stop delivering updates, even if they wish?

ComputerGuru6• 14 years ago

I'm a Windows and Mac developer, and I'll tell you why Apple isn't worse: their users don't hold on to old versions.

With free or 30 dollar major OS upgrades, upgrades that are consistently better than their predecessors (or at the very least (Lion?) not noticeably worse!), great and constant innovation to make the upgrades compelling and appealing, smooth/streamlined and automated "SP" deployments over the net, and many other things that I won't bother listing, they ensure that their users are, by and large, using the latest version of their OS.

They can break compatibility every time, for all I care. But when Windows 7 (or for all we know, Windows 8 too) provides no real enhancements over XP (at the very least, in the eyes of a consumer) except bloat and a confused interface, then and only then do I complain about how "evil" they are for (possibly purposely, if you look into the details of the hack I posted in another comment, you'll see why) breaking support for older operating systems.

ComputerGuru6• 14 years ago

I haven't downloaded it yet, but I assume you're referring to the same limitation VS2010 (w/ the latest SPs) had with exes not running on Windows XP.

Assuming it's the same, then adding this ASM file to your project should solve the problem:

https://github.com/NeoSmart/UtfRedirect/blob/master/UtfRedir...

acqq11• 14 years ago

No, executables made with Visual Studio 2010 run on Windows XP SP3. They don't run on Windows 2000. See:

http://tedwvc.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/how-to-get-visual-c-2...

There is an in-depth overview of all the things MSFT have removed to prevent the compiled executables from running on Windows 2000. These things still existed in VS 2008, it's not that they had to develop them.

roel_v• 14 years ago

Nope. The Visual Studio 11 CRT does not run on anything below Windows Vista because it relies on API's that were only introduced then. You cannot write applications that run on Windows XP with Visual Studio 11.

This is such a bone-headed move I can't believe where that came from. They can't be out of touch that much. I guess people with existing code bases don't have any options anyway, so they though this would be a nice 'incentive' for vendors to pester users into upgrading to new Windows versions.

Very disappointing.

funkah4• 14 years ago

You make it sound so sinister, but this is how progress is made. As an example, OS X is so good now because Apple had the courage of their convictions to make breaks with the past. I don't think it makes sense to expect an IDE released this year to support Windows XP.

They changed the UI chrome because that's what they always do. You make these people sound like Gargamel for Christ's sake. They're just trying to make software.

acqq11• 14 years ago

I absolutely don't expect the new VS IDE to run on XP but I certainly expect to be able to compile my program to an executable which can run on 50% of all PC's of the world.

ComputerGuru6• 14 years ago

It's all well and good to "break with the past" so long as what you end up with is an improvement.

When the entire world is using your OS, the onus is on you to either make upgrades people will be happy to use (and then happy enough to pay for), or continue to support the last "proper" release you made that literally half your customers still use.

spwmoni• 14 years ago

And failing!

RyanMcGreal• 14 years ago

As Spolsky so brilliantly puts it [1], the MSDN Magazine Camp has overturned the Raymond Chen Camp in its insistence that API stability and backwards compatibility are passe.

[1] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html

to3m• 14 years ago

Everybody is talking about lack of support for Windows XP. Seems a little premature, but I've no doubt that XP market share will decrease over time.

Nobody is talking about lack of keyboard macros. And yet, keyboards will be the primary programmer input device for a while yet.

So it sounds like MS have done their research on this one ;)

acqq11• 14 years ago

Yes, I'm really afraid that if the dumbing-down trend continues I'll be able to spend even less time in their new IDE.

Visual Studio 6 (released 1998) has keyboard macros, as well as every version that followed, until now, when VS 11 from year 2012 doesn't?

I've read somewhere that they "measured" that too few developers use macros. I guess they use metrics which you have to accept to be sent to Microsoft, and that the very same people who use macros simply do not want to have the IDE sending metrics over Internet at the times they don't control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Lie_with_Statistics

Disclaimer: I do use macros, that's the first thing I add whenever I install Visual Studio. It seems that unless something changes, I won't be able to use them on VS 11.

krambs• 14 years ago

Running it now, and definitely feels much snappier than 10. Waiting on VS10 was one of my biggest gripes.

ditoa• 14 years ago

Yeah 2010 was quite painful compared to how fast VS08 was. VS11 is not back to VS08 speeds but it is a good improvement over 2010 thank god. The big problem now is this new UI. I find it much harder on my eyes than previous versions. I didn't like the glossy/plastic look 2010 had and while this is a step away from that look it is more of a huge leap in a random direction rather than returning to a softer, cleaner look.

Today has been quite disappointing with Win8 CP and VS11 leaving a nasty taste in my mouth after the first bite.

acqq11• 14 years ago

If you have problems with the theme colors of VS 2010 you can use the free "Visual Studio Color Theme Editor" extension:

http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/20cd93a2-c435-...

I use it to get the colors which match the rest of my Windows environment. Still pity they don't read the Windows settings by default.

highace• 14 years ago

Does this beta have an expiry date? As in, if I upgrade am I going to be surprised by it deactivating in ~3 months time?

acqq11• 14 years ago

This is a beta version of the product which will sell for around 10 thousand pounds in the UK (it's an "Ultimate Edition"). Can you really expect it won't have an expiration limit?

I expect it has the limit though I still haven't found out what it is. Anybody knows?

zxoq• 14 years ago

If it's like the old VS betas it will last for 180 days.

Visual Studio 11 Beta released

Related Stories