Ask HN:Do my company own IP when I work on my personal app in freetime?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3640247

by mbh • 14 years ago

9 12 14 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I work in a software company 9-5. On weeknights and weekends I work on an iPhone app. The app has nothing to do with what my hiring company does. If I release the app in the app store, does my hiring company own any part of the IP?<p>Do I need to declare that I am building something on the side to my hiring company?<p>Should I think of release my app after I quit my hiring company if the above is true?

AndrewDucker• 14 years ago

Did you sign a contract saying that your employers have rights to work you do outside office hours?

If yes, then yes. If no, then no.

patio11• 14 years ago

It depends on the law in your jurisdiction and, potentially, on promises you may have made in your employment agreement. Many jurisdictions will allow employers to enforce an IP agreement which you made as a condition of your employment, and employers in both these and under jurisdictions at least theoretically state claims to such IP in a lot of employment agreements or in appendixes to them. (e.g. buried in the Company Handbook which is incorporated by reference, which may or may not be enforceable in your jurisdiction.)

In general, I would tell employers about that sort of thing and ask for a quick two-line email that they have no objection to $NAME_PROJECT_HERE.

P.S. The right time to do this was before starting work on the app, since your options are very limited if they say "Cool, we own that now, any questions?"

Mankhool• 14 years ago

Absolutely agree. I used to work in Vegas. An engineer colleague of mine specifically took a job there because (at that time?) Nevada was the only state, or one of very few, where an employer could not lay claim to his side projects - and he had at least one patent that I know of.

rmc• 14 years ago

If you are in a place where the employer can lay claim to your side work, then that means you need them to agree to not do so in your contract. There is a demand for software engineers now, so they should sign it.

dkersten• 14 years ago

Read the contract you signed when you started working there - this is the kind of thing that should be covered!

If you don't have a contract, then you have bigger problems anyway.

CyberFonic• 14 years ago

If you don't have a contract or your contract doesn't specifically mention IP you should not tell your employer about what you are doing. But approach your HR and explain the situation that you are thinking of developing an app which is unrelated to the company's lines of business and that you will be doing this entirely for your own education and in your own time using your own computer etc. Put in those terms they should not have a problem with it. Make sure you get it in writing to avoid future misunderstandings / contradictions. Then after a suitable delay, you could release your app.

As other people have pointed out, you could release your app under a different company - but then you have a similar situation of technically working for two employers. Again, that shouldn't be a problem unless there is a potential for conflict of interest.

muchonada• 14 years ago

It all depends on the employee contract you signed. At the company I work for the contract states that everything we make and do not disclose is company owned. This is because our work hours are so flexible that it can be hard to say what is "outside office hours".

But as long as I disclose my side projects they are mine and the company fully supports us in our side projects.

My advice: Read your employee contract and then talk to HR - make sure everything is legit before you make your move. That way there will be no surprises.

mark-r• 14 years ago

There are a few states that have laws covering this situation, otherwise it probably depends on the agreements you signed when you were hired.

stackoverflow.com/questions/401269/states-having-nonassignable-invention-exceptions-similar-to-california-code-sect

I don't know what the default is in cases where there's no explicit agreement, but this outcome seems possible.

www.dilbert.com/2009-01-22/

Forgive me that the links aren't clickable, I'm having trouble submitting this comment and I suspect it's a bozo filter that I'm tripping.

AznHisoka• 14 years ago

Why not release the app anonymously under a company name, or someone else?

gdhillon• 14 years ago

You should be fine, as long you are not using their property (hardware, software, phone etc) to work on your project. Also it should not be in competition with your company. Just to be on the safe side, you might want to tell your HR and see if they have any objections.

dctoedt• 14 years ago

In 2010 I posted a flow chart, with footnotes, to explain when an employer owns an employee invention and when it merely has shop rights -- see http://www.techlawnotes.com/diagramming-a-legal-issue-who-ow...

For copyrighted works: In the U.S., anything done "within the scope of employment" (which can be a fact-intensive question) is considered to be a "work made for hire," with the employer as the "author" and thus as the owner.

anonhacker• 14 years ago

IANAL but the issue simplified -> You own IP if:

(Developed while not employed) || (Developed in (California||Delaware||Illinois||Minnesota||North Carolina||Washington) && Developed on your own time using your own hardware) || (Your employment agreement/contract specifically assigns you IP rights)

Ask HN:Do my company own IP when I work on my personal app in freetime?

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