Nazi Symbols on Ukraine’s Front Lines Highlight Thorny Issues of History

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html

19 9 3 years ago

bell-cot2• 3 years ago

So wonderful to be sitting in a nice, safe, comfy office in America, as I idly contemplate such distasteful moral dilemmas.

The Ukrainians, on the other hand...

JumpinJack_Cash2• 3 years ago

Many people identified themselves with Russia and Russian culture even though they never even set foot in Russia . It happens after having the Russian potrayed as the enemies in basically all American movies.

Sure in the end the F-14 blows up the Mig, but it's a close battle nonetheless and the Mig looks just as cool as the F14,

The point is that if we don't want to deal with neo-Nazi or the Nazi symbolism that disturbs us, then it should not be brought up every 5 minutes in schools and movies and culture in general.

If 1 billion people watches "inglorious Bastards" or "Valkyrie", sure 95% will side with Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise, but there will always be 5% who'd root for the opposition. 5% of 1bn people is 50 million people.

Of the 50 million people who root for Nazi in movies there will be some 50,000 who think that such a powerful movement had to be onto something and decide to become sympathizers.

Moldoteck• 3 years ago

Nazi is just a name given to racists/nationalists with extra steps. They just hated jews and believed in pure race. If you don't teach about nazis in schools that hypothetical 5% will still be nazi like but not attached to strict nazi 'ruleset' and symbols, but we just can call them extremists. And it's not like people don't have access to internet, mein kampf can be found without much effort even if prohibited in many countries. And tbh teaching about nazi atrocities leads to 5% creation of nazis sounds like something pulled from air without proofs

JumpinJack_Cash2• 3 years ago

> And tbh teaching about nazi atrocities leads to 5% creation of nazis sounds like something pulled from air without proofs

Russians are painted as evil as Nazi in American movies and yet I love MIGs and everything I know about MIGs and AKs and their resilence I learned from movies.

A movie needs to depict close contest in order to be entertaining (even if the good guys eventually win). A close contest always brings PR to the losing side as well.

yellowapple• 3 years ago

The article's silence on the Nazi symbolism displayed among those fighting on the Russian side paints a picture of "Ukrainians are not as averse to Nazi symbols as Western sensibilities dictate" rather than the more accurate picture of "soldiers are not as averse to Nazi symbols as Western sensibilities dictate". The article's focus on Ukrainian personnel not satisfying said sensibilities and ostensibly supporting Russia's propaganda entirely misses the bigger point: Russia's propaganda is hypocritical projection and can be dismissed entirely.

10011012• 3 years ago

The benign ignorance of symbology that comes across in the article aside, the celebration of Stepan Bandera with a national holiday, street names in their capital and elsewhere, monument, etc. is telling.

10011012• 3 years ago

Too late to edit, but in response to earlier poster that deleted their reply, national day of commemoration is probably more accurate than holiday, agreed, thank you. There was some confusion on this point from sources deriving from: https://www.svoboda.org/a/29664681.html (translated headline indicates holiday). I don’t think it changes the thrust of the original point much, but I prefer precision as well.

justsomehnguy• 3 years ago

"a position that ignores the fact that Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, is Jewish"

Bwahah. By that logic there are only old white males in the US, because Biden is old white male. Oh and there is no racism there too, because Biden is not a racist, right?

So far, the imagery has not eroded international support for the war. It has, however, left diplomats, Western journalists and advocacy groups in a difficult position: Calling attention to the iconography risks playing into Russian propaganda

So the Ukrainians wearing Nazi symbols are not the problem, the problem is what it can be used by Russian propaganda. By claiming there are Nazis in the Ukraine.

A second press officer present said other journalists had asked soldiers to remove the patch before taking photographs.

'if I see no evil, hear no evil, speak no^WW then there is no evil'

Symbols like the flag associated with the Ukrainian Insurgent Army and the Galizien patch have become emblems of anti-Russian resistance and national pride

National pride in wearing the patch of the unit which 'took part in a massacre of hundreds of Polish civilians in 1944'.

But hey, Zelensky is Jewish, so... no Nazis? Especially in SBU: https://youtu.be/QA5yZnxS2zc?t=82

Nazi Symbols on Ukraine’s Front Lines Highlight Thorny Issues of History

Related Stories