A roundabout way of turning on a light. See the explanation b4 reading

http://www.kosherswitch.com/live/tech/how

by JerusaEnt • 14 years ago

14 18 14 years ago

In Judaism, you are not allowed to use electricity on Saturday. So this company made a light switch that according to them (and granted, many others) IS allowed to be used on Saturday. So I thought HN would like the way it works to try to get around things.<p>If your interested in seeing why this is allowed on Saturday as opposed to a normal light, if you go to Halacha>>Halacha: overview, it goes through it

kichuku88• 14 years ago

Hi. I am not Jewish (I am in a country with hardly any Jews) and I do not know what relation there is to electrical switched to a religious day.

Sorry for being ignorant. But can you please explain in simple words what is need for this for Jews?

neilk• 14 years ago

There are religious proscriptions against doing work on the Sabbath (for Jews, beginning Friday at sundown and lasting until Saturday evening). These include lighting a fire. Some religious authorities believe that completing an electric light is the modern equivalent.

Thus, there is an entire industry of elaborate contraptions to allow the observant Orthodox Jew all of the convenience with none of the covenant-breaking. Like this switch, which doesn't create an electric circuit; it blocks an intermittent light pulse which has some possibility of not even doing anything.

Allegedly this is more acceptable to the Almighty. Perhaps because the Torah lacks an anti-circumvention clause.

MiguelHudnandez• 14 years ago

As far as I understand it, some orthodox jews are not permitted to do any "work" on the sabbath.

Some factions believe that flicking a light switch is "work," or that pressing a button is "work." So some enterprising fellows have been creating ingenious inventions to allow observant orthodox jews to live comfortably while still not technically violating their rules.

It all seems pretty silly to me, but you have to admit, it is indeed hacking and I think the devices are clever.

One specific example is an elevator, which has a sabbath mode. On the sabbath, it will stop and open its doors at every floor, over and over, so that an observant rider can simply walk on, and walk off at their desired floor, without the perceived sin of pressing the button for their floor.

howardr• 14 years ago

One of my friends said that his grandparents would light their stove before sundown on friday and leave it lit until sundown Saturday so they would not break kosher laws

I have also heard that a lot of devices have kosher mode. E.g. refrigerators lights not coming on and power randomly going in and out much like this swith

JerusaEnt4• 14 years ago

Another "hack" us Jews use very often is a timer. We have a timer hooked up to an outlet, and plug things into the timer, so you can set certain times to allow the electricity through, and other times not to.

lywald• 14 years ago

It seems to me like the goal is to lure jews into studying their religion intensively by giving them forced free time. And if that's the case then switching a light on indirectly is still wrong because you are wasting time and focus trying to switch it. A better alternative then would be automation. Switch on given a schedule, or switch on when entering the room, ect...

notphilatall• 14 years ago

Quick explanation: In orthodox judaism, one is not supposed to operate a light-switch on the Sabbath.

I'm not jewish, but some of my friends are observant (but progressive) and use the Sabbath as a day of reflection. This seems to completely go against the spirit of the rule (to spend a day living simply with friends and family, without technology for maximum reflection, introspection, and rest).

I don't see how this gadget would catch on -- unless someone is bound is follow the rule to the letter, but doesn't really want to (but then at that point, they should just stop adhering IMHO)

JerusaEnt4• 14 years ago

I am Jewish.

So I can tell you that you are 100% right. I don't think this is really going to catch on for that very reason. Sabbath is a day set aside for family, religion, and not working.

I think what the main use is going to be is people will install it for emergencies. So I'm sure in Israel a lot of people will put it in their bomb shelters so if they need to spend Sabbath in the shelter and need to use the light, it won't be directly going against Sabbath.

emmelaich• 14 years ago

> will install it for emergencies

Surely use in emergencies is allowed already.

(I am not Jewish, but I heard an Oy Vey once)

D_Alex• 14 years ago

Poe's Law - an axiom suggesting that it's difficult to distinguish between parodies of religious fundamentalism and its genuine proponents, since they both seem equally insane - seems to apply here.

earl• 14 years ago

Here's another article about jewish appliances in general [1] with more detail about the restrictions. Essentially, jewish law differentiates between direct and indirect responses to actions. And I can verify you'll occasionally see this stuff on the UES, and a little more often in the Hasidic bits of Brooklyn.

   Sabbath law prohibits Jews from performing actions that cause a direct reaction;
   that would qualify as forbidden work. But indirect reactions are, well, kosher. In
   Hebrew, this concept is called the gramma. There are two types of grammas,
   Ottensoser tells me. Say you hit a light switch, but it doesn't come on
   immediately - that's a time delay, a time gramma. There's also a gramma of
   mechanical indirectness, like a Rube Goldberg contraption in which a mouse turns a
   wheel that swings a hammer that turns a key that launches a rocket. You can't
   claim the mouse actually launches the rocket.

That being said, as an atheist, it sure looks like these people are playing rules lawyer with their god, just like the dick at your D&D game. I have to wonder if such a god would be pleased.

[1] http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.11/kosher.html

timinman• 14 years ago

This is a fantastic discussion about what God might want (or not want). I am a person of faith, I'm impressed by the respectful tone of many commenters even thought they are obviously from very different backgrounds (rare in online discussions). I think God likes that, too.

A roundabout way of turning on a light. See the explanation b4 reading

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