I lived in LA and commuted to Berkeley by plane to save on rent

https://old.reddit.com/r/berkeley/comments/13hv95y/i_survived_living_in_la_and_commuting_to_cal_by/

by 18nleung • 3 years ago

145 115 3 years ago

old.reddit.com

emrah• 3 years ago

Total Cost: $5592.66

This is highly misleading since it doesn't include $ value of all the freq flyer miles used (as far as i can tell).

And I'm left wondering was it really cheaper? If yes, by how much?

alex_lav3• 3 years ago

FTA:

I was living in LA, rent free.

But also, FTA:

August 2022-May 2023

So 10 months. At the quoted amount of 5592, that's 559 dollars a month. Do you think you could find a reasonable, safe, clean place to live in the Berkely area for 560 / mo? A quick search says no.

utopcell• 3 years ago

Sure, nothing beats living rent-free.

ewoodrich• 3 years ago

I guess I'm not seeing the argument here when the starting premise is free rent in a similarly high cost of living city.

gruez2• 3 years ago

Do you think you could find a reasonable, safe, clean place to live in the Berkely area for 560 / mo? A quick search says no.

But to get that low quoted amount, you need to ignore the value of the frequent flyer miles used, and the value of his time spent commuting. If you factor those in, the cost is about $17.8k for the fall semester alone, plenty of money to get a nice place to live.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35997647

hindsightbias• 3 years ago

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/roo/d/san-francisco-awesome...

BART would usually be faster

gruez2• 3 years ago

This is highly misleading since it doesn't include $ value of all the freq flyer miles used (as far as i can tell).

Yep. Here are the amounts with the value of the miles factored in[1]:

$1366.06 on Alaska, 307500 Alaska miles

307500 Alaska miles * 1.2 cents/mile = $3690

$380.86 on Southwest, 43732 Southwest points

43732 Southwest points * 1.5 cents/point = $655.98

$42.80 on United, 5500 United miles

5500 United miles * 1.2 cents/mile = $66

$15.60 on Avianca, 6500 Avianca miles

6500 Avianca miles * 1.2 cents/mile = $78

So for the fall semester it costed him $1805.32 in cash, but if you factor in the value of the points that rises to $6295.30. He also mentioned that he spent 45972 minutes on commuting. If you factor the value of time (eg. minimum wage), the "cost" rises further to $17,788.30.

[1] obtained from googling "[points program] value"

presentation• 3 years ago

At least when I was in the Bay Area around 4 years ago, it was possible to get a 3 bedroom apartment right by Ashby BART for $3,000/mo. So yeah I don’t think this worked in this persons favor especially given the miserable schedule

bruce511• 3 years ago

Valuing miles us a tricky thing to do because it depends on factors each are personal, and in this case unknown. I get that the airline has a book-value for them, but that's not the same as value-to-me.

Firstly, unlike $ they can expire. So it's not like you can save them forever. I recently had 15 000 miles expire, simply because there was nothing I wanted, or needed, that I could spend them on.

Secondly they're not universal. To follow the article, i can't spend them on rent. So they really only have a value if I can trade them for something I would/could have spent $ on. So sure, upgrades are nice, but not like essential.

It's the same with time. You can be time-rich or time-poor. You can be cash-rich or cash-poor. Typically your priorities will be to reduce poorness. Rich people spend cash to get more time. Cash-poor people spend time to get more cash.

Miles-rich follows the same argument.

So it's not so easy to put a $ price on miles or time. Clearly the equation will vary from one person to another.

Incidentally given the choice of commuting or working minimum wage, I'll choose commuting all day long. Especially if that commuting is eyes-free, so I can use that time in a productive or entertaining way.

csa• 3 years ago

I assumed he would use Surf Air or something similar (AYCE commuter plane for $2000-$2500).

Makes sense if you have lots if FF miles and free rent somewhere else.

newyankee• 3 years ago

I never understand how NIMBYSM is considered environmentally correct or friendly. Every movement is taken over by vested interests. Average 4-8 floor height buildings with existing American infrastructure otherwise should be enough to flood market with 'cheap enough' homes.

kevinventullo• 3 years ago

Does anyone consider NIMBYism environmentally friendly?

wlesieutre• 3 years ago

No, but environmental reviews are a popular tool for enforcing it

davidw• 3 years ago

My parents are from the "boomer" generation, and their idea of environmentalism is pretty good in a lot of ways, but in terms of lifestyle, they think of it as "live on a big lot with a lot of trees and drive everywhere". Yes, they get to see lots of green - but they are very fossil fuel dependent.

There really is a shift in mentality from thinking about what you see out your front door to thinking about the whole thing as a global system, and not everyone is capable of connecting the dots.

closeparen• 3 years ago

California NIMBYs generally consider themselves to be saving the world from overpopulation. That’s mainly an object permanence problem, but it’s true that high housing prices deter household & family formation.

There’s also the old canard about how environmentalism demands maximally convenient driving and parking because congestion and hunting for spaces causes cars to run longer.

User232• 3 years ago

Supposedly protecting the rare endangered birds keeping high density housing from being built next to mansions on the Malibu shore is extremely environmentally friendly NIMBY.

kpw94• 3 years ago

Total Cost: $5592.66

For 10 months. Even if true story, only make sense if you can find rent $559 cheaper in LA (and don't value your time & the environment of course). It was extra special for the OP as he'd live rent free in LA.

Typically, the door-to-door commute time between my home in LA and my classroom in Berkeley is 4-5hrs EACH WAY

Waking up at 3:30am and wasting 9h every day doesn't seem worth the $ savings. I feel a part time on-campus job or something would be less draining, more rewarding, and financially same...

alwayslikethis2• 3 years ago

Whatever part time job you have on campus, it sure isn't going to make you enough to rent anything close to a good location. You'd still have to commute quite far, just now you also have to work.

deepzn3• 3 years ago

Also they used a lot of miles. So real $ cost would be higher.

et-al2• 3 years ago

If you check out the OP's FlyerTalk thread, they were already doing LAX-MIA-LAX mileage runs before attending Cal.

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-reports/2093205-epic-co...

atdrummond3• 3 years ago

Yep. I would routinely fly weekend trips from the Midwest to Jakarta on my weekends in college just to get AA miles. The views of FT posters should be taken with a massive grain of salt - we’re not normal.

auntienomen• 3 years ago

They were living rent free. So they'd have had to find a room for $559 near Cal. That was hard in 2005.

Otoh, they have missed out on the chance to build connections with their classmates, which is one of the main benefits of even a year at a good school.

bhl• 3 years ago

My takeaway from reading about the person's experience is that we need better high speed public transportation in California. It would unlock a lot of economic and non-economic opportunities if people can move across the state within an hour. Imagine if Berkeley was a commuter school for people in Los Angeles, or UCLA was a commuter school for people in Bay Area.

asdff3• 3 years ago

This is the entire point of the high speed rail. It unlocks new labor markets. Now workers can live maybe not in LA and commute to berkeley, but further in the central valley and go either way. Cities like Fresno or Merced could see booms as these areas take on the housing demand brought on by labor.

ehnto2• 3 years ago

Brightline Rail Company gets it. They are predominantly a real estate play, buying up land surrounding their "higher" speed rail services. They have a Cali project currently though it is to connect to Las Vegas.

Buy the land, build the rail connector and enjoy the boost in land value you created.

It feels like everyone wants rail, benefits from rail and advocates for rail, but no rail gets done.

et-al2• 3 years ago

Have you seen Caltrain's service lately? To be realistic, I'd prefer our regional systems have more frequent headways and BART to circle the bay. SF-LA commuters are a drop compared to local commuters. I'll even settle for a 3am last BART train instead of the lone 800 bus or the 24 hour service we'll never get.

deepzn3• 3 years ago

Yeah, the crazy part was the flying. But, people commute long distances for work or school all the time to save money on rents, especially all major cities. Having better subways definitely helps. For e.g. in NYC, where many commute from Jersey, or Long Island.

echelon• 3 years ago

Build more density in the cities you want rather than bussing people in. That's the best answer.

ericmcer• 3 years ago

A high speed rail enabling people to commute to SF/LA from 100+ miles away in under an hour would immediately relieve a huge amount of housing issues while creating tons of jobs in low income areas. The whole central valley would become a valid place for people to commute from.

Too bad we are incapable of building one.

antupis• 3 years ago

yup it would be logical thing to build so no way California will do that.

zamnos3• 3 years ago

https://buildhsr.com/ is tracking the progress (ie, we are capable, if slow). First up, Bakersfield to Fresno.

labster2• 3 years ago

I voted for California High Speed Rail when I was in university. I’m middle-aged now. I hope that one day, my grandchildren will be able to take that train.

rsync• 3 years ago

No, you didn’t.

You voted for California rail but nothing high speed was ever proposed.

The proposed rail line you are referring to was a normal speed train and didn’t even complete the SF to LA trip in two hours.

Which is to say: we would have achieved, in 2030, what most of the world achieved in 1990.

jnsaff2• 3 years ago

Here is an interesting take on California HSR.

TL;DR the physics is really hard and California might not be the best place for it.

https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2022/10/11/why-high-speed...

zamnos3• 3 years ago

Thanks for linking that read! I didn't walk away with that tldr. Mine was that airplanes are better because adding airports is way easier than adding train stations, and that HSR is hard (as in, not just a California thing).

akiselev3• 3 years ago

Key quotes:

I was living in LA, rent free.
I love flying and I have a lot of frequent flyer miles/points from credit card sign up bonus/flying over the past few years.
I booked all my tickets for Fall 2022 back in April and May 2022. Then I booked all my tickets for Spring 2023 back in Nov 2022. Most tickets were booked using Alaska miles or Southwest points
I have elite status with Alaska and Southwest, both offer a valuable perk called same-day change. I always book the cheapest flight of that day and call them when the check-in window opened to change to other flights of that day free of charge.
Spent 45972 minutes on my commute, equivalent to 31.93 24-hr days.

So basically, if you're rich and have already spent several times the cost of rent on travel in your gap year(s), willing to spend over 20 hours a week commuting for 3 days of class, and have literally no concept of the value of your time, you too can afford the miserable commute from LA to Berkeley for university!

tempestn2• 3 years ago

I guess it's not necessarily a poor use of time if you can study in the airport and/or on the plane. Or if you just enjoy flying.

akiselev3• 3 years ago

The LAX-SFO flight averages to around an hour and a half one way. It sounds like he really liked commuting to and from the airport more than flying.

He would have been better off with a PPL and a Piper that takes off from the nearest small airport. It would have cost a little more but the bulk of it would have amortized better over the course of a four year degree (frequent flyer miles and elite status vs life time of PPL and resale value of the plane)

tsuujin• 3 years ago

I genuinely can not imagine enjoying flying. Airports are a form of living hell.

snapetom• 3 years ago

I'm getting close to a similar situation.

I live in Washington and negotiating with my employer about doing a weekend MBA program in Texas. Most, if not all, tuition is covered, I'm staying with family there. However, it's not nothing money-wise. I'm my own with flights.

What I see as a pro, though, is that I'm highly productive on planes and airport lounges. At home, I'm distracted by spouse, pets, Netflix/Hulu/Amazon, etc. I've always been able to focus much more while traveling. I'm confident I can do most of the work for the program in the air, plus I get to hang out with extended family once a week.

ulfw• 3 years ago

Oh yea those TSA lines and cramped boarding gates and the endless cramped narrowbody planes that take forever to board and deboard. Doing the same route over and over and over again. Must be joyful!

itronitron• 3 years ago

Reminds me of hearing one of my classmates in college complain about how their boyfriend (at the same college, but a junior or senior) was having to fly back to Hong Kong every weekend to help run the family business. I can only hope that they were able to spend those hours sleeping or studying.

coding123• 3 years ago

meh - it's not the destination, it's the journey.

Why is doing all the stuff any different than getting in your car and doing stuff. Just because it's different stuff than what you do during your day doesn't mean it's not an enjoyable life.

tbrake• 3 years ago

What's with the indignation over this on HN? I didn't see them suggesting anyone/everyone would be able to do it, or that it was practical.

It was just a funny set of cirucmstances that allowed for an attention catching headline and a mildly amusing tale. Yeeeesh.

atleastoptimal2• 3 years ago

I think some people on here default to a highly comparative/competitive mindset. When they see titles like the one here, they assume there's a subline reading And because I found this hack and executed on it, I'm more resourceful, capable, and smarter than you, and if you can't keep up with me its your fault if you don't succeed

Not saying everyone here thinks it but the emotional reaction to these kinds of things makes it seem this is how it feels to some people.

usui3• 3 years ago

Exactly, what's with the critical and defensive reactionary response here? This story is hilarious! And the amount of effort it took to execute and maintain it. And to keep full track of commute time and expenses on a spreadsheet no less? Bravo.

ynniv• 3 years ago

It's a cool story, but the headline is bullshit since they didn't include the value of 576k frequent flier miles. That more than doubles the cost.

sfmike• 3 years ago

agreed the true hacker spirit is to sometimes do something completely overzealous and over the top just in the spirit of what if or I can. This person was essentially load balancing their life to play with time and finance variables a true hacker spirit.

akiselev3• 3 years ago

I guess predictable HN click bait leads to predictable HN criticism leads to predictable HN meta-comment leads to predictable HN meta-rebuttal.

It's the circle of life :-)

prepend2• 3 years ago

It’s just not very remarkable. The same day change part is clever but otherwise was just “here’s how I spent a bunch of money” and not very interesting or useful to me.

So as equally amusing as “my parents paid for my gap years where I visited many cool locations using routine and typical methods.”

diversionfactor• 3 years ago

tl;dr student doesn’t appreciate the extreme privilege they live in (LA rent free?!?!?) and don’t realize this is totally untenable for someone scraping by trying to afford college (i.e. anyone in the USA not in the upper class).

jrochkind1• 3 years ago

From what I read I don't see how I'd make any conclusions about what they do or don't appreciate or think is tenable for anyone in particular else. Where do you see that?

User232• 3 years ago

Socal is full of people living rent free. You don’t need to be rich to do it either. You just need to revise your living standards.

dilyevsky• 3 years ago

Upon reading title I thought it was some clever hack involving hitching a ride on a private plane or something. Flying commercial for school 3 times a week is bonkers

atleastoptimal2• 3 years ago

If a 4-5 hour each-way commute and 3:40 wake up times throughout an entire year of school is worth cheaper rent to a person, it's their choice.

usui3• 3 years ago

actual psychos attend this school

LOL I read a good amount of r/berkeley but this plane-commute story has to be one of the funniest posts I've ever read.

So humbled to share space, living and interacting with the absolute most-fucking-insane students ever. I wish I could have that dedication for anything, as insane as it sounds. Wow. Inspirational.

IG_Semmelweiss• 3 years ago

This story reminded me of a story I heard in 2017, during a cocktail party.

Some entrepreneur had worked out a lease for living space, in the commercial heart of a large urban city....living in what during daytime is *literally* some VC office. He would come in at 8pm+ when the VC staff had left, and leave in the AM to work. And he paid a ridiculous low amount of rent to have what was effectively a 25K lease at market price.

Not sure what exactly was the motivation for the VC to agree to this (imagine having a bed in your office?) but , wondering if there is an underground network for this that im not aware of?

fakedang• 3 years ago

Not sure what exactly was the motivation for the VC to agree to this (imagine having a bed in your office?

That's just an Entrepreneur-"in-Residence".

quickthrower2• 3 years ago

Sounds like it might be breaking some kind of building usage code.

But the VC might have a free nighttime security guard, and coffee machine warmed up for breakfast time.

fuzzythinker3• 3 years ago

Alternatively, drive to Bakersfield and take the Amtrack to there/Oakland. It's a much more eco-friendly and enjoyable ride. They sell 10-packs and monthly passes too.

https://www.amtrak.com/stations/bfd

aidenn0• 3 years ago

Is that more reliable than the one that runs along the coast? Bay area to coastal SoCal Amtrak is notoriously late.

fuzzythinker3• 3 years ago

I took it 20-30 times 15 years ago, I don't remember it being late.

tpmx• 3 years ago

That's a ~9 hour trip including the drive and 30 minutes safety margin.

fuzzythinker3• 3 years ago

Yes, much longer time, but net work/read/sleep time should be same or greater.

pengaru• 3 years ago

zero fucks given

aripickar• 3 years ago

For full context, this is someone with a wife and two kids[1] who had a couple of semesters and just needed a temporary solution, not a 20 year old kid. Different then the title might suggest.

[1] https://www.berkeleyside.org/2023/05/15/uc-berkeley-la-plane...

limitedfrom• 3 years ago

Doesn't seem so. The article talks about a person getting a sociology degree, while the Reddit post talks about someone working on an MEng degree. Given the poster's extensive posts on Flyertalk and his comments saying that there are two of them[1], I think there actually might be two different folks doing this.

edit: Found an older post where the poster says they're doing an MEng Civil Engineering program[2]

[1] https://old.reddit.com/user/greateranglia [2] https://old.reddit.com/r/berkeley/comments/urcxua/is_it_poss...

usui3• 3 years ago

Correct, but you don't even need to search the post history. The difference in the major is already noticeable in the original post. These are two different people. Just imagine, these two could have been commuting together and syncing up.

jeandejean• 3 years ago

The fight for mitigating climate change has a long way to go. I understand the funnily absurd side of the story, but the obvious flip side hurts my eyes for not being mentioned: it's trivializing pollution to an extreme.

vivegi• 3 years ago

It is creative. I'll give the writer that.

Can't say I have the stomach for such a grueling travel schedule and I have done my share of frequent travels, including intercontinental long-hauls.

Nevertheless, it solved a problem for the writer and made for interesting reading.

lutorm• 3 years ago

And here I was thinking someone was commuting in their own plane...

SamvitJ• 3 years ago

An interesting story of someone who did something very similar last year: https://news.berkeley.edu/2023/05/11/thirty-years-and-100-fl....

From the article:

Twice a week, Parnell rises before 5 a.m. in Whittier, about 25 miles east of downtown Los Angeles. He takes a quick shower, hops in his car and drives 35 minutes to the Long Beach airport. He breezes through TSA precheck and, with coveted “A group” boarding status, claims a seat near the front of the morning Southwest Airlines flight bound for Oakland.

Parnell knocks out some course readings on the 45-minute flight before dashing off the plane and subjecting himself to the mercy of BART. If all goes according to plan, he steps onto the UC Berkeley campus just in time for his 10 a.m. discussion section on the future of nuclear energy.

“It’s a sprint,” Parnell said. “I use every minute.”

When — if — things are on time, he gets back home to his wife and two children around 10 p.m.

I lived in LA and commuted to Berkeley by plane to save on rent

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