Download bots are a well-known secret of the iOS eco-system

http://www.insidemobileapps.com/2012/02/14/download-bots-were-the-well-known-secret-of-the-app-ecosystem

by akkartik • 14 years ago

56 39 14 years ago

alexlin8• 14 years ago

I personally don't understand why "bot farms" are that "scummy" or unfair. It was possibly the best way for the average indie developer to stand out without a large wallet (to buy banners). This rash of a problem is even more aggravated ever since incent PPI was banned.

Because of this, the era of rapidly acquiring users at scale on iOS is coming to an end. In it's place, developers will be forced to revert back to traditional ad buys in the form of banner ad networks with ridiculously "black 'box" targeting options.

I don't know if this is a bad thing since developers will spend more time figuring out their LTVs through each respective acquisition channel, but you sure as hell better be able to throw a few thousand dollars here and there and expect it to never back out.

All in all, Apple's app store policy should just read, "If you've solved discoverability on our app store, we're banning your method."

jws• 14 years ago

I personally don't understand why "bot farms" are that "scummy" or unfair.

They fraudulently make the claim "lots of people like this". User's believe a "most downloaded" means other people like them have made a decision and picked this little grain of wheat from the chaff.

Bot farming is fundamentally lying to your potential customers to the detriment of applications that should be on the list.

alexlin8• 14 years ago

And marketing as a concept isn't?

Why aren't people rallying against Tapjoy when they're incentivizing people to download apps in exchange for virtual currency? As long as you pay $20-30k, you have enough downloads to breach the top 25.

Or take banner ads. Zynga has the ability to throw $100k IOs at random ad networks and their new apps are instantly in the Top 25 shortly after launch. Does this reflect popularity/quality or is it just a competition between who has the biggest wallet?

If Apple changed it's app store algorithm to function like the Android app store (that takes uninstall rates/ratings into account), this wouldn't be a problem.

sokoloff• 14 years ago

Really? You believe that, just because it was cheap for indies, that ranking an app more highly in the app store based on non-human downloads was beneficial to the human users of the app store?

I'm no Apple fanboy generally, but this seems like they're making a choice based on what's good for their human users, and that choice benefits some the developers at the expense of others. (IMO, it benefits the ones who are competing "fairly", but that doesn't even matter compared to "is it good for users?")

alexlin8• 14 years ago

You're twisting my words. Are you really so naive to believe that if you make a great app that you're automatically going to climb to the Top 25?

Try navigating the app store. Tell me how you discover apps. A great app that was released is never going to get anywhere unless a marketing budget has been allocated beforehand (unless you somehow win the lottery and create the next angry birds.)

And lets talk about the "expense" of others. Did you feel like you lost anything when bots and incent PPI were allowed? Did you even know about it? The app store functions in a way that it's sort of like the survival of the fittest. If the people don't like an app, it's going to drop back down as fast as it climbed up.

If Apple wants to create an ecosystem where indie developers can thrive, they need to change their ranking algorithm, solve discoverability for their developers, or stop banning the solutions people have been coming up with (incent PPI, bots.)

ericflo• 14 years ago

A Kantian ethicist might say that if you apply the first formulation of his categorical imperative you would find that it's immoral because if everyone were to do it, the whole system would stop working.

alexlin8• 14 years ago

That's not necessarily true. Bad apps will naturally drop. App ratings don't lie (at least to some extent.)

You also have to account for the LTV of users. If it's not backing out (which is most likely for a bad app), they're just wasting their money.

feralchimp2• 14 years ago

> It was possibly the best way for the average indie developer to stand out without a large wallet (to buy banners).

How indie is indie?

$5k - $15k may not be considered a "large wallet" by internet advertising standards, but it's a whole lot of money by "I just wrote a great app in my spare time and want people to see it" standards.

alexlin8• 14 years ago

It varies. But $5k means their app can take a trip to the top 25 and gain around 8k organic users/day. You know where $5k in shotty banner ads gets you? ~2k organics tops.

Prove me wrong that $5k is a lot easier to scrape together than say... iAd's $25k minimum ad buy.

bprater• 14 years ago

Part of this is Apple's fault. In general, Apple needs to look at some alternative ways to get apps in front of iOS user's eyes.

AppStore has been mostly untouched over its lifetime. I frequently scan the "Featured" category and "Top 25", but I rarely go deeper. The curation could be much broader and touch individual interests, but right now, it doesn't.

I would ask this to iOS developers: what would you like to see AppStore changed so that you might get additional exposure for your software?

bobbles• 14 years ago

As a pure iOS user (ie. not an iOS dev). I would like to see something that lets me hide an app from the app store entirely (and maybe provide a list of the apps I have hidden?)

I end up just wading through lists and lists of apps I already know I don't want and arent interested in.

Abilities to hide apps based on rules would be great too. For example, some reason chosen by me - so that when I go to download this app in the future, i might see something like "deleted this app because they added bad micropayments that ruined the game"

Something like 'categorise by publisher' could be cool too, if a company is making consistantly good apps I would like to find more of them.

pagekalisedown• 14 years ago

Being able to hide all apps from certain developers (crap peddlers) would be immensely useful too.

vannevar• 14 years ago

Apple has little interest in more equitable distribution of sales. Particularly in the early days of the App Store when they needed to attract developers, it made better headlines to have one dev making $10M than to have 100 making $100K. It was the illusion of a gold rush that helped grow the App Store so quickly. At this point attracting developers isn't much of a concern, but there's still little incentive to make app discovery easier. Apple only needs enough quality apps to populate their lists. The other 99.9% serve to pad the number of iOS apps for marketing purposes so that Apple can club Android over the head. For users it doesn't matter much that there are 500,000 iOS apps because there remains no really good way to find most of them. But that big number sure sounds good in commercials.

prawn• 14 years ago

Also probably didn't hurt to have stories of people making money with fart apps and the like. "Wow, even I could make something like that." (fast forward a few months) watches trickle of $1 sales

nextparadigms• 14 years ago

Well they won't be able to use that for long. Android should surpass iOS in number of apps this year. They are already equal in apps downloaded per month - about 1 billion each.

viscanti• 14 years ago

I don't think it's Apple's job to get apps in front of iOS users. The app developer(s) should have a marketing strategy of some sort. Obviously that strategy depends on budget, but if you're hoping you're featured, or fraudulently using bots to increase downloads, you're likely doomed from the beginning.

I think there's room for a third party solution. A website where you can rank apps you like, and it recommends other ones you might like could work. There's lots of potential options for app discovery businesses, I just don't see how Apple can get into it at the level a good third party solution could.

rkalla2• 14 years ago

In the context of general marketing you are right, but in the context of Apples walled garden (app store) not only is that their job, it is their reason for existing.

The more content they can get under your nose that you like, the more content you buy, the more the app devs make, the more Apple makes and the more desired the iOS store becomes.

This is why Netflix and Amazon spend millions on their reccomendation engines; same idea here.

I think you probably knew this though. I am only solidying the point that inside any app stores environment, it is the job of the owner of the store to markwt the content effectively. Outside the store, anyone can do anything they want.

alexlin8• 14 years ago

Except that isn't the case. Almost all of the dominant players in the social mobile gaming space have used bots, and are thriving. That's not to say the bad apps didn't use it as well, but their users' LTVs never backed out BECAUSE they were bad.

I strongly believe that it IS Apple's job to help get apps in front of iOS users because it's an ecosystem that prides itself on better apps. I agree that if Apple gave developers' a better way, to hell with bots.

As for a third party solution, people have tried. People have tried to create websites to rank apps, but they just don't work without incentivization (which to many of you, means misleading the end user.) Ask yourself honestly. Would you yourself log onto a site every time you try an app just to rate it?

acdha• 14 years ago

I completely agree that developers need to handle some promotion but there's a bigger reason for Apple to improve app discovery: the users. People who find apps they like are going to buy more and increase their lock-in to the platform.

Let Android start catching up revenue-wise and I suspect Apple will find they can have a UI expert look at iTunes and fix so many of the glaring warts.

alexlin8• 14 years ago

I strongly agree with this.

Here's an idea:

Why doesn't Apple take the Amazon/Netflix approach and add a recommendations engine?

For example, if I was a big fan of iMobsters (and I spent a lot of $$$ in it, it would have a few categories.)

New (like iMobsters): Crime City, Mobster Wars 3D, Crime Inc.

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Download bots are a well-known secret of the iOS eco-system

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