Daimler is setting up a $650M charging network for commercial EVs

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/04/daimler-is-setting-up-a-650-million-charging-network-for-commercial-evs/

by mfiguiere • 3 years ago

81 31 3 years ago

disrupthq• 3 years ago

This is a much-needed move for the commercial EV sector. With Greenlane focusing on medium- and heavy-duty vehicles, long-haul electric trucking could finally become a reality. It's interesting that they plan to add hydrogen fuel cell infrastructure and eventually chargers for passenger EVs, making it a more comprehensive network. Exciting times ahead for the decarbonization of the trucking industry!

sofixa• 3 years ago

long-haul electric trucking

I wonder, does it even make sense? Long-haul (electric of course) rail + short to medium haul trucking make more sense - it would be much more efficient.

Do long haul electric truck even make sense? Don't the batteries needed weigh too much?

bombcar• 3 years ago

Long haul could "work" but the effort needed is immense, compared to replacing delivery/short-haul trucking (which is doable with equipment we have today).

For long-haul the best may be something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3P_S7pL7Yg

(Trains have advantages and disadvantages compared to long-haul trucks)

Robotbeat2• 3 years ago

It’s an engineering challenge, but doable as you get about a ton of extra weight for EVs.

The main mental miscalculation I think people make when they say “why not just trains” is ignoring that rail is a super conservative industry, at least in the US, and in the case of passenger rail (not on existing tracks) that building out new rail infrastructure is super expensive, particularly for HSR where rights of way have to obey Newton’s Laws when it comes to turning radius.

It literally may take more time to do the environmental review for adding, say, catenary lines to existing rail than to just go to electric trucks. Some companies have been really effective at building out charging infrastructure. Additionally, just convincing the rail industry to make changes to enable/allow electrification (especially in non traditional ways) could take a generation.

Additionally, the US has removed a lot of seldom-used rail, so you just need a lot of trucking. Moving cargo from truck to rail to truck just may be a lot more cost and hassle than direct via truck.

Electrifying trucking, even long haul trucking, is just potentially the fastest way to electrify a lot of current logistics given the cultural, infrastructure, regulatory reality we live in today, as opposed to the ideal cultural, infrastructural, regulatory world we’d LIKE at here to be.

Engineering a decarbonization transition with realistic assessments of infrastructure & industry/regulatory inertial as a constraint is very different than “ideally we use trains for logistics as they have a lower coefficient of friction.”

Robotbeat2• 3 years ago

It would be nice if the article had mentioned something technically useful like charge rates. Megawatt charging?

ourmandave• 3 years ago

Is any of that coming from the US Dept of Transportation's Federal Infrastructure fund?

https://www.transportation.gov/rural/ev/toolkit/ev-infrastru...

shadyfroyo• 3 years ago

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-reaches-15-billion-settlem...

Likely being forced to, a reminder this is the same company that deliberately and consistently cheated on emissions tests in the USA.

oblio2• 3 years ago

It's still a net positive that they're doing this.

sandworm101• 3 years ago

Unless this is cover for something else. Unless this is just greenwashing. Unless this project pulls money in that would otherwise have gone to more effective projects. Commercial EV charge points are great but the low hanging fruit remains the vast numbers of private vehicles not currently served by charging schemes. Those people are basically everyone who doesn't own a house with a garage where they can install the bespoke charger for their particular EV.

fwungy3• 3 years ago

They're being forced to do it.

The natural market for EVs is a maximum of 20%. The cost/benefit is only positive for certain use cases.

Ford can't sell its Lightning F150 EVs. They just had a fire on one of the holding lots too that burned a bunch of them down. I guess they'll have to take the insurance.

Fun fact about EV fires: they're a chemical reaction, not an ordinary fire. Removing the oxygen source like you would with an ICE fire doesn't work.

robertlagrant6• 3 years ago

Do people normally remove the oxygen source with ICE fires? Wouldn't that be...the atmosphere?

sjsdaiuasgdia• 3 years ago

The problem is the battery has everything it needs to burn already inside its chemistry. It doesn't need the atmosphere to supply oxygen.

fwungy3• 3 years ago

When a lithium-ion battery catches fire, it can be very hard to extinguish and can burn very fiercely³. If a battery is going to catch fire, the likely cause is thermal runaway¹. This is when a battery experiences an increase in temperature that eventually leads to cell short-circuiting or disintegration that can spark a fire¹. There are three main abuse factors that can send a battery into thermal runaway — mechanical, thermal or electrical¹. The contents of the battery are under pressure, so if a metal fragment punctures a partition that keeps the components separate or the battery is punctured, the lithium reacts with water in the air vigorously, generating high heat and sometimes producing a fire².

(1) What are the lithium-ion-battery fire risks & safety issues?. https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/battery-fire-lithium-i.... (2) Just how concerned should the solar industry be about battery fires?. https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2020/02/just-how-conce.... (3) Why Lithium Batteries Catch Fire - ThoughtCo. https://www.thoughtco.com/why-lithium-batteries-catch-fire-6.... (4) Can Batteries Catch On Fire? Do They Ever Explode? - Firefighter Insider. https://firefighterinsider.com/batteries-catch-fire-or-explo.... (5) Lithium Battery Fires: How to Spot the Warning Signs. https://www.erieinsurance.com/blog/lithium-battery-fires.

cesarb• 3 years ago

Fun fact about EV fires: they're a chemical reaction, not an ordinary fire.

Aren't all ordinary fires a chemical reaction?

fwungy3• 3 years ago

A chemical is a compound that has been purposefully refined or purified.

A chemical fire is far more complex and potentially dangerous than a normal fire.

Gasoline is a chemical, however we have a lot of experience dealing with gasoline driven fires and they can be easily doused with water. Large battery driven fires in vehicles are a new thing, and they are not easily doused with water.

panick21_6• 3 years ago

The natural market for EVs is a maximum of 20%.

And yet countries in Europe have already higher then 20% of new car sales being EV and some of them without subsidies.

Ford can actually sell its F150. And lots of version of F150 and other trucks had issues that stopped production line. Its utterly irrelevant in terms of the EV debate.

Fun fact about EV fires

Your not exactly breaking news here.

sh1mmer• 3 years ago

I’m still surprised that got swappable batteries isn’t being seen as an option for commercial. It seems like it would solve a lot of issues (Eg slow charging during peak solar, fast refueling swaps), while giving the manufacturers a subscription model which seems to be the kind of thing companies like.

panick21_6• 3 years ago

Its a good idea exactly as long as you only think of the good thing about it and ignore the gigantic pile of technical, political, organization and infrastructure problems with it.

Some companies are trying it in the commercial space so far not much has come of it.

Daimler is setting up a $650M charging network for commercial EVs

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