Got one job offer, took it, then got another. Etiquette?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3532107

by azelfrath • 14 years ago

7 17 14 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

So three months ago I was recommended by my instructor for a pentester position. He said that once the class was over (a week from then) he could officially vouch for me, since it's not showing favoritism if I'm not his student. I apply for the position and wait patiently. I email them back about 10 days later as per my instructor's advice asking if they have reviewed my resume, and got no response. I figured they had either ignored, forgotten, or lost my app.

Fast-forward to a few weeks ago when I apply for a sysadmin position at a local ISP. Less than three weeks from applying, I am hired before the background check even clears. I started last Wednesday.

Today, I get an email from the first company saying they want to set up a phone interview.

I really don't know how to handle this. Do I play hardball and tell them I was already hired? Do I ask if they can beat the pay and benefits of my current position? Do I say I am still interested but have been employed elsewhere? Do I tell my current boss that I might be considering a better position at another company?

procrastitron• 14 years ago

I would take the fact that they gave you no response at all for 3 months as a huge red flag.

azelfrath3• 14 years ago

That's what I was thinking, but it just occurred to me that perhaps the position hadn't been created yet. I mean yea, they still could have said something, but if I had been given advanced notice about a job that didn't exist, it would sorta make sense...

No, you're right. They could have at least acknowledged my existence =\

tobiasSoftware2• 14 years ago

By the way, I recently had a company do that. I interviewed on campus, they loved me, and I didn't hear from them again. They called me 3 months later, I aced a phone interview. They bring me in for the real interview and 1) they didn't have a contract yet for the job, they were in-between contracts and "would probably have it before you get accepted" and 2) didn't accept me anyways as they found a "candidate with more experience"

1082• 14 years ago

yeah, they are too late but do ask if they can beat the pay and benefits of your current position and dont tell your boss anything. Companies dont tell you when they downsize and give ya the pink slip do they?

azelfrath3• 14 years ago

I was thinking that, but a small part of me feels like that would come across poorly. I mean I know I am supposed to be looking for the best that is available to me, but I don't wanna turn them off by asking so bluntly.

1082• 14 years ago

Hey, you didnt sign on the dotted line or anything while being employed with current employer. You were in touch with them BEFORE you joined Com#2 and are they contacted you now so are just exploring options. Its not wrong. When you look at it this way you wont feel like a heel for leaving if the first company makes a good offer :P

bigiain• 14 years ago

My advice is to be honest. Tell the new offer "I never heard back from you guys, so I accepted another offer. I wouldn't feel right leaving them in the lurch, so it'd a have to be a significantly more interesting offer and I'd need some time to sort things out here without disrupting plans they've made based on hiring me.". There's probably no need to tell your current boss anything until _after_ (if) the "significantly more interesting offer" eventuates.

azelfrath3• 14 years ago

This is the closest to what I intend to do. I wanna display interest without making it obvious that I am gonna push for the best offer from both parties.

rhizome• 14 years ago

Indeed, the only thing to say to the current company is that you're leaving. Nothing else is their business and will actually hurt you if word gets out. Don't even think about playing them against each other, that only works when you don't work for either of the companies being played (yet).

gexla• 14 years ago

At this point I would just be looking at everything as a learning experience. The sysadmin job is probably a good learning experience, but probably not for long. The other job offer didn't come back to you for three months, so maybe they aren't in much of a hurry. Perhaps you could stick around the sys admin job for a few months to learn as much as you can from that job and then make the jump. In any case, I probably wouldn't be interested in sticking with the ISP for long.

tobiasSoftware2• 14 years ago

First of all, from what I've heard declining a job offer after accepting is a looked upon as a huge indicator you are not suitable to work for any company. If you do that and word spreads, it could directly affect your career. Maybe if you absolutely have a dream job lined up with double the salary you should take that risk, but still think very very hard about it.

Second a phone interview IS NOT a job offer. I am a 4.0 GPA double major undergrad and 3.9 GPA masters student with great recommendations and tons of individual side projects and part time school-related job experience, but no full time job experience. So far I've been accepted one place, I turned it down due to a condition that would mean I could not work until half a year passed. I have had over a dozen interviews and half a dozen phone interviews. Most places go resume -> phone interview -> company interview -> final steps, so that indicates you have passed 1/3 or 1/4 of the hurdles. Due to my skills nearly every resume turned in becomes a phone interview, the phone interviews pretty much always result in an interview, but most interviews dead-end because they find "another candidate with more experience." If your situation is anywhere near similar to mine, then you would have 50% chance at best of getting the pentester job, possibly closer to 10%.

My advice would be to take the sysadmin position and leave the soonest you feel comfortable (from what I've heard you should be there a year, at least half a year, any less than that looks really bad). If you look for a job and have even a single year of job experience, that should work in your favor. You have already accepted it AND you do not have another offer.

Do not try to game the system, simply tell them you accepted another offer already but would like to consider them the next time you are looking for a job. If you say, "Well I was just hired by someone else so you better make me a really good offer to make me turn traitor to my current company and leave them," that reflects horribly on your character and they will run. If you tell your current boss, "Hey I know you hired me last Wednesday, but I'm thinking of leaving" that will also reflect horribly on your character and could damage future opportunities (You do know the next company you apply for could ask your current boss what he thinks of you right?).

My advice is just to forget about the other offer and pretend it never happened, stay with your job at least half a year, and at that point if you hate your job, maybe start looking around again and ask that company if you could interview with them.

ig1• 14 years ago

Well what do you want to do with your life ? - do you want to be a pentester or a sysadmin ?

If being a pentester is what you want to do then take the interview, and if you decide to take the job then just quit from your current employer and tell them that the role wasn't what you were looking for.

Seriously, a decision that will potentially effect your career for the rest of your life shouldn't be done on the basis of etiquette, it should be done on the basis of what you want to do with your life.

ayers2• 14 years ago

I spent too long typing and you got there before me. Great point though.

ayers2• 14 years ago

Something that has not been brought up is what direction are you wanting to pursue. If you are dead set on getting into pen testing then that would add more weight into your decision. If they are both just options for work and you are still trying to sort out where you really want to focus then maybe staying in your current job would be wise.

I would say that it would not hurt to take the phone interview. This doesn't mean you are going to leave your current position. The company could end the process at that point and solve the issue for you. If this is the case, at the very least you gain some more exposure to interviews. If you do get past the phone interview stage and progress to an offer you will have to make the hard decision then. If you did proceed with the phone interview I would take Bigiain's advice and be honest with them. As others have suggested, playing the two companies off each other would not be a good plan since you have already taken the job.

tnorthcutt• 14 years ago

Do I play hardball and tell them I was already hired? Do I ask if they can beat the pay and benefits of my current position? Do I say I am still interested but have been employed elsewhere?

If pentesting is what you'd rather be doing, be up front with them about the situation. If you'd be willing to leave for a similar/better/wildly better offer, say so.

Do I tell my current boss that I might be considering a better position at another company?

No. Do not tell your current boss that you might be considering a better position at another company. If the company that you're not working for right now makes you an offer that you'd like to take, make 100% certain that you have a position there, and then notify your current employer that you're leaving. Under no circumstances should you indicate to them that you're thinking about leaving.

I wanna display interest without making it obvious that I am gonna push for the best offer from both parties.

Do not push for the best offer from both parties. The only communication you should have with your current employer about this situation is to notify them that you're leaving once you have employment elsewhere secured.

My advice might be different if you'd been working at your current place of employment for longer, and had reason to believe that they'd be willing to negotiate to keep you around. For an entry-level position (I'm assuming, based on the given context) that you've only been at for a few months, I wouldn't think that would be the case.

gamechangr• 14 years ago

Alway be honest!!! Tell them the other company responded quickly, but that you would be willing to explore still

overgryphon• 14 years ago

A phone interview is not a job offer- you probably need to also complete an in-person interview before being considered for an offer.

Got one job offer, took it, then got another. Etiquette?

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