A different tipping culture compared to a few years ago

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/25/business/tipping-trends/index.html

by pseudolus • 3 years ago

38 66 3 years ago

In addition to inflation, I've anecdotally noticed "suggested tip percentage inflation" at restaurants nearby, where the iPad presented doesn't have the usual 10,15,18/20% on the screen but rather 20,25,30% (many times, in addition to auto-gratuity practices that began in the pandemic). At least for me, tipping has been one of those things that I wish were different like Europe, but it exists and there's a social norm around 15%. But given the option to "be the jerk" and not tip or normalize 30%!? 30% is insane. If 30 is on the screen I'm hitting zero. It's not normal. I'm not sure how these point of sale systems work and who is pushing these new norms, but I'd be interested to hear some story or justification for the new highs.

anamexis11• 3 years ago

I don't think you should punish the waitstaff for how the management has set up the tipping screen.

RedCondor2• 3 years ago

I think you probably should. Then the wait staff would have a big material incentive to turn against management.

The whole "spare the edge" attitude just protects the core, which is by definition always protected by its edge.

Teever• 3 years ago

Do you think that the waitstaff have no input on the tipping screen at any restaurant, ever?

splix• 3 years ago

But that's a feedback loop, no? I mean, it still affects the staff so if the staff doesn't like what managers do they either ask the managers to fix it or they quit.

happytoexplain• 3 years ago

Historically I've always agreed with your sentiment, but as the problem progresses, we can't keep allowing the system to use employees as a hostage in its negotiation with customers. The kinds of things the parent is describing have real, concrete effects. Already people are tipping at counters where there is absolutely zero "service" in the tipping sense, just because the machine implies they should, and that starts to affect the system (it is becoming harmful to these employees to not tip, just like it's always been harmful to waitstaff to not tip). The same goes for what numbers the machine displays. This has to stop, and at some point, it's going to be hard to avoid the employees being caught in the crossfire.

It's important to note that this system also unduly pressures customers, who see these tip screens, and if they therefore believe other people are tipping, but they choose not to, there is a fear of retribution or poor service by the employees who, like waitstaff, have come to materially depend upon (or at least expect) tipping, bit by bit. This is especially stressful in cases where the tip screen is shown at the time of ordering.

zeroonetwothree2• 3 years ago

The unemployment rate is almost 0. That means if management doesn’t pay the waitstaff enough they will leave and find a better job. So your tip goes entirely to subsidizing management.

cntainer2• 3 years ago

Management is punishing waitstaff by underpaying them and then blaming the customers for not tipping enough.

kofejnik2• 3 years ago

My transaction is with the business. Staff’s well-being should not be my concern.

kube-system• 3 years ago

At a quick service restaurant? They should be earning a normal hourly wage. If they consistently get tipped >$30/mo, then their wage can be legally dropped to the tipped minimum wage. That sounds like a punishment.

_3u102• 3 years ago

The waitstaff is free to quit. Management is free to raise their wages. I'm free not to tip. No one is being punished. I'm not going to be guilted into paying more because mgmt has decided to underpay their staff.

rdtsc• 3 years ago

Normally I'd agree but in this case the OP seems to have been talking about the default choices going upwards of 20%. I can't imagine at most places waitstaff getting to program the payment terminal's default choices.

It's the owner who made that decision and they are ultimately responsible for how they encourage/discourage tipping and compensate their staff. 30% suggested tip might seem nice initially but it might also drive away customers in the longer run. And those customers will never protest much, they'll just leave and not come back.

It also signals that "look, we are going above and beyond with our service, we deserve a 30% add-on", but when in reality their service is most basic, or even worse than before, there is a disconnect that people notice.

davidjfelix2• 3 years ago

I felt fine with this justification at 15% when there was equilibrium, but clearly that hasn't prevented the creep of undesirable behavior.

laomai• 3 years ago

The ultimate beneficiary is the owner since his business model makes an assumption on tipping to employ waitstaff and run a "viable" business.

Business models that rely on tipping to cover basic business model costs should be reconsidered.

For the business owner, they have to consider the tradeoffs if they want to maintain the current waitstaff: quantity of staff, hours, variety of menu options, decor, desired profitability, amount of automation, quality of food, etc.

The immediate beneficiary is the waitstaff, which will no have to reconsider their employment or their demands of the business owner.

For the waitstaff, they will move on to other companies that either figure out a business model to pay a livable wage or consider alternative types of positions. Eventually the surviving restaurants will adjust pricing and hourly rates/salaries like every other normal business. There will be positions available for entry level waitstaff and more experienced waitstaff.

TLDR: The beneficiaries of tipping overreached — don't be surprised by a backlash.

Brief history of tipping in America: https://www.7shifts.com/blog/history-of-tipping-restaurants/

CraigRo3• 3 years ago

I disagree. Zeroing the tip with a message for management encourages workers to go to less abusive restaurants or to complain on my behalf. It is literally the only way to provide feedback.

arecurrence• 3 years ago

I’ve made my own personal vote against this behaviour by no longer patronizing businesses that do this.

The only way (short of legislation) for consumers to change tipping is for businesses to be aware that having pinpads with options like this means they’re going out of business.

toss14• 3 years ago

Yup

What people need to recognize is that this is yet another corporate tactic to distract from their abusive practices.

Just like recycling plastics; instead of designing actually recyclable or biodegradeable products and actually implementing recycling, they sell unrecyclable crap, ship the waste off to China (until they refuse it), and try to make everyone feel personally guilty for their insufficient personal recycling practices.

With tips, they make a business model of paying they people poorly, extracting maximum profits, and holding prices just low enough for you to buy, they laying a guilt-trip on all the customers to help their poor workers. Similarly, WalMart runs seminars for their workers on how to get more government poverty benefits, so that the taxpayer subsidizes their business.

At first, I was for tipping, as I've always been a solid tipper and of course I want to help the worker. But now, they are just obviously pushing the limit to see how far they can push our collective guilt. Plus, we have zero idea of how, or even if, these "tips" actually get to the workers. I'm starting to think that the only solution is for the society to reject it completely and go No Tip. If they aren't paying their workers enough, they will quit.

I have personally noticed that I now subconsciously avoid buying stuff where tipping is involved exactly because the corporations are trying to more than double the expectation, so what was a habitual generous tip is now framed as being a cheapskate, and I don't want to feel pressured into it, and I don't want to make the worker feel shortchanged or disrespected, so the likelihood is that I'll just skip the whole transaction, and everyone gets nothing.

darth_avocado3• 3 years ago

I had a recent experience where I ordered pickup from a restaurant’s website (instead of a delivery app to make them more money). I paid a 10% tip since it was a pickup. I get to the place and they just cancel my online payment and made me pay again, and under the pretext of getting my signature, presented me with the 20/25/30 option. I was very mad and left a custom 10% to send a message. Needless to say, I will not be going there back again.

fxtentacle• 3 years ago

That sounds insane!

In Singapore, it's common that restaurants will charge you a 5% service charge. And then you usually don't tip at all. Many restaurants will also clip a "bill preview" to your table when they bring the first round of orders. So unless you ordered additional rounds, you know precisely how much they will deduct when you give them your card. For me, that cost predictability adds a certain peacefulness to the whole dining experience.

whycombagator• 3 years ago

I kid you not I went somewhere recently that had 40% as the top end of a recommended tip.

27fingies2• 3 years ago

my hypothesis not backed by data is that this is Square (and other pos provisers) and their salespeople convincing store & restaurant management they can pay workers less by putting a giant tip screen in front of customers. Of course Square gets a cut of that tip :)))

zeroonetwothree2• 3 years ago

The money to pay workers comes from customers either way so Square was already getting a cut of it.

jlund-molfese• 3 years ago

Actually, no, GP is right!

If they weren’t given an option to tip while paying with a card, plenty of people would pay with that card and then leave a cash tip in the tip jar at their favorite coffee shop (nobody is going to request that their card be run again for a tip). There are places that make you sign a receipt and add a tip—but that isn’t always part of the Square flow.

Now it’s integrated into the PoS system, so the default option is to give Square their cut for a tip.

27fingies2• 3 years ago

Sure but not all of the money customers pay goes into expenses. Some of that is profit! So if workers stay because they make more money now that customers are voluntarily paying 20% more, you dont have to keep raising your wages. And wouldnt you believe it more of that customer money turns into profit!

cntainer2• 3 years ago

I hate tipping in general, but especially when it's expected or even demanded.

The fact that restaurants or any business relying on the practice use it as a reason to underpay their employees just pisses me off.

twiddling• 3 years ago

It also varies across the country what the min. wage for servers is. Some use a discounted rate, where tipping at a certain level is factored in. Others don't have a separate wage for "tip" jobs.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped

I have to say 30% is bonkers in Washington St. where min. wage is already $15.74

iamdamian• 3 years ago

It's encouraging to read that people are reacting like I am to this increased pressure to tip—namely, by tipping less.

Hopefully this customer behavior will make its way back to management (and maybe even lawmakers) so that we get to a more reasonable system (i.e., no drip pricing, employers pay a fare wage, tip screens for random purchases go away).

jwjohnson314• 3 years ago

Pay cash, skip the screen

irrational• 3 years ago

I remember the first time I saw tipping on a tablet at a counter service place. I did tip because I was too surprised to think about it. But afterwards I had time to think about it and I’ve never tipped in that manner since. However, it did put a bad taste in my mouth about tipping. I used to tip 18-20%, but I now refuse to go above 15% and have even stopped tipping for some situations I used to tip. In my opinion, this was a big misstep by the business community.

PragmaticPulp• 3 years ago

I identify with this article. I’ve tipped at least 20% by default my entire life at bars and restaurants. Always keep cash in the car and my wallet to tip valets and other hospitality workers generously.

It all felt predictable. I could estimate how much things were going to cost because I knew where tips were expected and the typical rate.

Then it all changed, with tipping appearing all over. My barber added Square checkout and added a tip screen with 10%/15%/20% options. Then later it became 15%/20%/25%. Now at my most recent haircut it was 25%/30%/35%. This is an addition to their price increases every 6 months that have doubled the price of a haircut (pre-tip) in the last 3 years. On my last visit the barber made a comment that everyone seems to be going longer between haircuts these days for some reason, but he didn’t seem to put it all together.

I ordered takeout from a local restaurant via an app, leaving a tip within the app. When I arrived the person at the counter made some comment about how tips are appreciated and how they still work for tips. I casually mentioned I did it in the app, but they tried to start a conversation about how the app takes a percentage and how they’re getting fewer customers these days for some reason. I just wanted my food, not to get pulled into a guilt trip about double tipping. I haven’t been back because I just don’t want to deal with that after a long day of work.

Its starting to feel analogous to TicketMaster or AirBnB, where you’re presented with one price up front but then when you get to the checkout you’re hit with a substantially higher price that you didn’t expect. The unpredictability is getting tiresome.

digitalsushi• 3 years ago

Yesterday I went into a little French cafe in Portsmouth NH with a small grocery area in the front. I bought a shrink wrapped jar of mustard. Brought it to the counter. Touchless transaction. I don't remember the tip options, but I don't believe they were above 20% or 25%.

I made eye contact with the cashier and selected zero. I figure she didn't even notice the number I selected but I sure felt guilty doing it.

But, why don't I feel guilty tipping 20% when I have a hand basket at the Market Basket with 80 dollars of food, or a grocery cart with 450 dollars of food in it?

motohagiography• 3 years ago

The post-pandemic tipping conventions mean that you can't be price sensitive and remain sane. What was a sincere risk gratuity two years ago is now a social expectation, and while food delivery and ridesharing in cities is very convenient, the service-class it created implies that now middle income people need to exercise some noblesse oblige to offer some dignity and offset some of the class resentment these jobs create. A tip now is whatever you wouldn't be embarassed to accept in their position.

In Canada, advertised prices for anything that isn't sitting on a shelf are basically a meaningless anchor number. We have a sales tax of 13% on everything, and then once you add the various service, subscription, card tap processing fees, credit card fees, warranty, "donation," and other fees, it's prudent to add at least 35% to any advertised price in your budget.

My answer was to avoid businesses that have more than one or two locations and shop at locally owned places as much as possible. Personally I just left the city as soon as I could afford to, for many reasons, but one of them was the effects of the inequality from importing people en masse from poor countries to do service jobs for the nouveau bourgeois was just becoming vulgar. No level of tipping in the world will change the relationship between a largely publicly funded middle class and the people who massage them, do their nails, drive them around, deliver their food, walk their small dogs, and clean their short term rentals. It's gross. Where possible, I opt out.

darth_avocado3• 3 years ago

Tipping culture is out of control. Some of the things I’ve seen and oppose:

1. 20/25/30% becoming the default instead of 10/15/20%. 20% is now expected and people throw passive aggressive remarks at you if you tip 20%.

2. Tipping at places that don’t provide any service: mom and Pop clothing stores!?; takeout places where you pick something from the shelves and walk to a counter to get it billed; restaurants where you order at the counter, pick it up when it’s ready, eat on a table and clean up after yourself when you leave;

3. Expecting tips after you’ve already charged for the service. This includes but is not limited to delivery apps: you get charged a service fee, a delivery fee, a local legislation fee that is to ensure the workers get paid fair wages, all of which exceeds 30% of your order. Then are expected to tip. It makes sense in some cases (delivery from a far place or a big order etc.), but not as a default. I’ll tip when you only charge delivery fee or don’t charge anything (like old school pizza places).

4. Tips for salaried employees or contractors. I am not paying my plumber a tip after I paid the dude $140/hour in labor charges on a job that cost me upwards of $3000. Just no.

jwie• 3 years ago

It’s gone from a kind of commission on service to a specific person to a voluntary overcharge for anything because why not ask if the customer is willing to pay more.

I’m not tipping in the drive through.

I equally hate the charity “round up” or whatever. I’ll donate myself without paying a commission you get to deduct, thanks.

Ekaros• 3 years ago

The tip percentages sounds extreme. I wonder if you were to project current increase rate forward when will it hit 50% or 100% of the item price?

zonotope• 3 years ago

I found this Freadonomics episode [1] enlightening. A lot of restaurants have tried to have "no tipping" policies, but they usually revert after they lose business due to the higher prices.

Tipping also allows for price discrimination (a good thing in an economic sense). People who are well off tend to pay more, but people who can't pay as much can still be customers.

I find it really annoying too, but there are some reasons to keep it around. 30% is just crazy though.

[1] https://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-does-tipping-still-exis...

commiepatrol• 3 years ago

I still don’t get why people tip for to go orders. I don’t take up space in your restaurant, you don’t have to wait on me or clean after me. I’m coming in to just pick up good, never going to tip for that.

alexwasserman• 3 years ago

As a brit living in the US, whenever family come over and we're paying a restaurant bill it's painful to have to tell them that typical tipping is 20% here, not 10% like back home, and it's not baked into the bill either. That extra 10% can be pretty painful on a nice meal if you've mentally budgeted a specific amount, and that's in an actual restaurant with service.

I used to be actually called a service charge, still is in some place, which reflects that's its for good service. At least, it was originally, and still is in Europe to an extent. It's not just a mandatory top-up regardless. It also mentally helps separate out the restaurant service change where there's genuine service, from the person just checking you out at a store or counter.

prirun• 3 years ago

I agree that the tipping system sucks. My nephew worked at an upscale restaurant for $2/hr because "you make all your money in tips". That's a shitty system.

A lot of the comments are about management shifting costs to customers, but even if tipping were outlawed, the customers are still going to be the ones to pay, right. I do think it would be a better system than tipping, but the end effect will just be to raise prices; it isn't going to come out of profits.

diggernet• 3 years ago

Lots of people here venting about percentage inflation and requesting tips for simple counter service. Well, now I've seen a new one...

Placed an order at argon40.com, and at the end of the checkout process they prompted for a 5/10/15% tip. On a website. Just ridiculous!

A different tipping culture compared to a few years ago

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