Black and white

http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/11/black-and-white.html

by baha_man • 18 years ago

73 44 18 years ago

torvalds-family.blogspot.com

Prrometheus4• 18 years ago

Torvalds makes the same mistake that many other people make when evaluating politicians - he takes them at face value. If being reasonable and open-minded were qualities that were highly valued by voters, then politicians would hire coaches to help them practice seeming reasonable and open-minded.

In fact, this is one of the things that concerns me most about Obama. I too like the fact that he sounds like a reasonable man in interviews and he seems to value his opponents' aguments. But his voting record shows none of that. By his words, he is a deeply thoughtful man. By his actions, he is a hyper-partisan.

George Bush has taught me to evaluate politicians by their actions, not their words. Ironically, if being open-minded were your highest priority for a politician, then John McCain's actions (though not his words) would place him among the best of any living politician.

sharkfish3• 18 years ago

If you have children in the Iraq war, you might feel differently.

Also, I'm glad we have so many people in this country who understand that the economy is driven by the working people, not the wealthy.

I don't agree with all of Obama's ideas, but I think under his presidency I will have the most freedom to be who I am without fear that my country will turn into the setting of the novel 1984.

But most of all, like Linus, I'm worried about black/white thinkers. I am happy knowing that Obama as a future president, at least shows _evidence_ that he understands multiple perspectives on a problem and can think through contradicting positions to come to a rational conclusion. Too often, difficult decisions seem to have been made, these past 8 years, based on religious views.

Prrometheus4• 18 years ago

>I don't agree with all of Obama's ideas, but I think under his presidency I will have the most freedom to be who I am without fear that my country will turn into the setting of the novel 1984.

From a civil liberties perspective, I am not comforted by Obama's capitulations on FISA and the PATRIOT Act, and neither am I comforted by his choice of one of the fiercest enemies of privacy in Congress as his running mate. Biden bragged that he "wrote the PATRIOT Act", and he was the originator of the office of the Drug Czar.

You may think Obama is better than McCain, and that is your right, but lets have an honest view of his actions in mind when we make that choice.

byrneseyeview• 18 years ago

If you have children in the Iraq war, you might feel differently.

Can you explain your argument? It sounds like you're implying "If you had more information, you would reach a different conclusion," but what you're really saying is "If you were subjected to different emotional pressures, you would ignore evidence and come to a new conclusion."

I mean, if a judge is deciding a case against Philip Morris, and has all of his retirement money in Philip Morris stock, he's going to see things differently -- but it's not going to improve his decision.

jhancock4• 18 years ago

ok, you had me until the last paragraph at which point you stuffed in your love for McCain ("place him among the best of any living politician") without providing anything to back that up. Precisely what "actions" over the last 8 years would you point to that prove McCain so "open-minded"? And yes, I do mean over the last 8 years. I am a "what have you done for me lately" kind of guy.

Torvolds' blog post is well written. Most none of us gets to meet the people we vote for in person. We have to settle for what we feel and perceive. It is not black and white.

Prrometheus4• 18 years ago

I have no love for McCain; I'm certainly not voting for him. However, he is famous for supporting causes on both sides of the partisan divide (ex. supporting global warming measures, opposing the Bush tax cuts, supporting the Iraq War, supporting open immigration, etc). It would be hard to detect a coherent ideology in his voting patterns. That is why his selection in the primary process gave self-described "conservatives" fits.

peakok• 18 years ago

As a european, I see at least one action that makes McCain quite open minded. When the US Army decided that Airbus won the contract against Boeing, Obama took a protectionist stand and voted for the cancelation of it, while McCain said that Airbus won legitimatly and therefore, the contract shouldn't be canceled, because it's the way competition work : the best offer wins.

The contract was eventually cancelled. I believe that this kind of protectionism harms everybody, the US and the Europeans. Now Boeing won't try their best to make a better offer than Airbus, since they know they won't be allowed to fail, and the US taxpayer will ultimatly end paying higher for an inferior product.

“Man is neither angel nor beast; and the misfortune is that he who would act the angel acts the beast.” - Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

bayareaguy2• 18 years ago

John McCain's actions (though not his words) would place him among the best of any living politician

Well, I suppose it depends on what you mean by "best". He certainly appeals to Americans who respect those who avoid responsibility and act in their own self interest. He strikes me as the kind of person who is likely to find a way out of past promises when a better deal comes along.

How else would could you explain the way he abandoned his crippled wife for a pretty rich lady twenty years younger then himself? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-J...

How else to explain the many ways he's changed his position since 2000 in order to gain favor with the far right? http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=1779141 or his new position on torture? http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/20/mccain-torture-veto

astine2• 18 years ago

Well, I suppose it depends on what you mean by "best"

This is what he meant:

if being open-minded were your highest priority for a politician

If you had bean reading, you would have noticed this and spared us, yet another diatribe against a man that nobody here likes.

dejb• 18 years ago

> George Bush has taught me to evaluate politicians by their actions, not their words.

To me his words, actions and the results were all pretty consistent. Only the scale of failure of his presidency was a surprise... And the fact that he was voted in twice. You sound like you may have been one of his 'x2' voters. If this was the case it doesn't present the best credentials to be lecturing others on candidate selection.

alecco5• 18 years ago

He basically says Obama is to him what McCain is to Stallman.

I'm very thankful to Mr. Torvald's work on which I am writing this message, but I rather pass on his intransigent self-centered views on world and politics. That post is very dissonant.

jhancock4• 18 years ago

Torvolds will not go down in history as an eloquent writer. I do not agree however, that he was comparing McCain to Stallman. In fact, Torvolds doesn't refer to McCain anywhere in the post.

Torvolds brings up his issue with Stallman/FSF/GPL3 to point out that he, Torvolds, bases his positions on situation; "it depends" which is why he titled the post "Black and white".

alex_c• 18 years ago

Don't mean to nitpick or distract from your main point, but you spelled it wrong 4 times over 2 posts - unless I'm missing some subtlety of Finnish names, it should be "Torvalds".

alecco5• 18 years ago

It is implied. Closing statement says it all.

But hey - that's why I'm endorsing Barack Obama, not myself, for president.

dchest• 18 years ago

Only two days left... thanks science! Finally, the internets will be free of American elections.

anamax• 18 years ago

> Only two days left... thanks science! Finally, the internets will be free of American elections.

No they won't. The 2002 and 2004 elections start on Wednesday.

cstejerean• 18 years ago

Something about quoting the entire post that you're responding to seems wrong.

patrickg-zill• 18 years ago

I am happy to hear that Torvalds doesn't have too much emotional investment in politics. Reality is that presidents and Congress should have less power over our lives, and we should never hope they have more.

mlLK• 18 years ago

Someone should goad Linus in creating an account w/ Hacker News so he can join the discussion.

greyman• 18 years ago

I fully agree with his view on Stalman.

HansF• 18 years ago

Tivo takes software under a free licence, redistibutes it, and takes every step possible you can't do the same thing. We see the same thing with some android handsets. Open source is freedom and creativity, we need to protect that freedom, if not, open source will die. Stallman understands this.

Black and white

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