After defending false data, Comcast admits another FCC broadband map mistake

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/02/comcast-could-have-avoided-giving-false-map-data-to-fcc-by-checking-its-own-website/

by mfiguiere • 3 years ago

160 45 3 years ago

arstechnica.com

bastard_op• 3 years ago

Sounds like a perfect job for ChatGPT to verify every address against their website.

jt21902• 3 years ago

ChatGPT is not the right tech for the job, but I don’t think you should be downvoted for suggesting that verifying the database entries is something that can be facilitated with as bit of tech.

db48x8• 3 years ago

There is one small problem with that. submitting a challenge requires agreeing to this statement:

    I hereby certify, under penalty of perjury, that:

        I have examined the information contained in this challenge and, to the best of my actual knowledge, information, and belief, all statements of fact contained in it are true and correct.
        If an individual, I own or reside at the location being challenged or am otherwise authorized to request broadband service there.
        I acknowledge that the information provided in this form will be shared with the provider selected above for the sole purpose of reviewing and resolving the challenge.

    If this form is being submitted by the representative of a company, organization, government, or other entity, then the certification must be signed by an authorized officer or signatory of the entity (e.g., corporate officer, managing partner, sole proprietor, or government official) who has reason to be aware of the truth and correctness of the information submitted herein.
    [] The entry of my name above constitutes my electronic signature to this certification. Persons making willful false statements in this form can be punished by fine or imprisonment under 18 U.S.C. § 1001.

I’d like to see the news stories about them fining or imprisoning someone for correcting their database at an address where they don’t actually live, but I bet it discourages a lot of people from doing it.

barkerja2• 3 years ago

There's a national (fiber) ISP that claims -- according to the FCC broadband map -- to provide 1000/1000 to my entire village. According to their own website, the closest address they service is about 25 miles away.

I submitted an FCC challenge about 2 months ago, and just today received notice "provider subject to your challenge has conceded the challenge and is required to submit a correction for the challenged location in the online portal within 30 days".

I am curious what benefit a provider receives from feeding this false information to the FCC? Is it funding (grants, etc.) related? It will also be interesting to see if the updated data will only reflect for my specific address, or if it will also apply to other areas around me that aren't serviced by the provider.

If it's the former, I will be submitting more challenges.

gurchik2• 3 years ago

Correcting false data is important because the map will be used to determine which parts of the US are eligible for $42.45 billion in federal grants to expand broadband availability starting in mid-2023.
One of those investigations began after our report about an Ohio ISP called Jefferson County Cable, which admitted to lying to the FCC about the size of its network in an attempt to block funding to rivals.

barkerja2• 3 years ago

Thanks for that info! I live in a somewhat rural area (central NY) and my Town is in the process of rolling out its own municipal broadband. They are relying on grants to continue the rollout of service.

I've brought this to their attention, a neighboring ISP has fed false data and it could potentially be harming their options for funding.

grecy• 3 years ago

I am curious what benefit a provider receives from feeding this false information to the FCC?

I think the more interesting question is what are the penalties for a provider submitting this false information to the FCC.

Clearly there's a LOT of money up for grabs, and it seems like whoever tells the biggest lies will get the lions share. With no consequences for lying, you'd be stupid not to.

mistrial93• 3 years ago

you'd be stupid not to

people wonder why businessmen and thieves are sometimes indistinguishable

theFletch• 3 years ago

I work for a rural ISP and would say that the data can be pretty overwhelming. We rely on the counties for GIS information regarding addresses, which in a lot of cases is not great (especially rural). For the big guys, and maybe even some smaller, there is a certain amount "land grabbing" for protection from competition. When you ask what the benefit would be, it could simply be the equivalent of a rounding error too. Maybe someone drew the polygon too big. It certainly matters though when it comes to not only the availability of funds to each state, but also the application process for certain areas.

Zigurd2• 3 years ago

"We have given away $40 billion in the last 10 years ... and haven't solved the problem," said Tom Wheeler, who was FCC chairman in Obama's administration.

It is very likely that many billions of that and subsequent subsidies have simply disappeared without anything to show for it, to the point of it being outright fraud. Nobody in the US seems to have the balls to recover this money.

FireBeyond• 3 years ago

AT&T is bad at this too. In fact, they lobbied to have a bunch of 1.5mbps DSL results removed from average speeds because "the technology is obsolete", and the FCC obliged.

Now, to be clear, they are still SELLING said technology, and in many cases they present it to you as their only option, but y'know, since it's obsolete, we'll just not count it.

causi• 3 years ago

I only found out my dad was being scammed into paying them $35 a month for that 1.5mbit service when I was helping him troubleshoot why his Alexa kept losing connectivity.

beauzero2• 3 years ago

I wish you could provide a "reverse" challenge. In Carroll County, GA Spectrum/Charter provide or are rolling out underground rural fiber. CarrollEMC/Crossbeam are rolling out "on the power pole" fiber in the same rural area. Neither show up on the map to the extent they are provided. It would significantly help my neighbors to know these are options.

dzdt• 3 years ago

Is it an option? Probably they are running the fiber but only for long haul and 5g wireless backhaul and wont actually sell you a connection to it.

beauzero2• 3 years ago

Its available. Have been on 1G Spectrum for about 2 months now. Love it. They are competing with CarrollEMC/Crossbeam to get in first and sign up as many as possible before CarrollEMC is done with their rollout (which has a 6 year rollout plan).

aidenn02• 3 years ago

This is pretty bad considering Comcast's website itself is a bit optimistic as to which addresses have service.

chrismeller• 3 years ago

I do find it odd that Ars never mentions anything about the website search tool not being 100% accurate. It’s not until a human looks at it that they can really confirm or deny availability.

olliej• 3 years ago

"mistake" - this is clearly intentional and deliberately fraudulently misrepresenting their coverage in federal documents. Once or twice is a mistake, but a consistent pattern of over claiming coverage in a way that cuts funding to support competition is clearly intentional.

polygamous_bat• 3 years ago

Unfortunately, if there's anything Americans fear more than losing basic rights to to pad corporate profits, it's "government overreach" in the form of holding such a corporations liable.

coleca• 3 years ago

Is there any decent tool to determine areas where symmetric broadband coverage in a given area is available? From what I can see on the FCC map it just using their "broadband" definition of 25down/3up which is akin to dial-up for most of the folks on HN.

db48x8• 3 years ago

There’s a little icon to the right of “Broadband” that you can click on to change the search criteria. It wasn’t obvious to me at first either.

Zigurd2• 3 years ago

I'd bet operators of major conferencing software have a pretty good idea of how well ISP connections work nationwide. Aggregated (or even maybe not) they would paint a very accurate picture. Now we just need to get someone in government, who will probably become a lobbyist after, to care.

db48x8• 3 years ago

A few years back Microsoft mentioned that something like 42% of all Windows computers have less than the 25Mbps broadband that the government is aiming for. Of course, not all computers run Windows, and even then it doesn’t tell you the difference between broadband availability and the desire or ability to pay for it.

CyberDildonics• 3 years ago

Just another very profitable mistake.

DanielVZ• 3 years ago

Telecommunications is one of the only things stopping me from wanting to migrate to the US. I live in a third world latinamerican country but we have one of the best internet service in the world (it was awful when I was growing up).

The recipe? Regulation to avoid monopolies and market manipulation.

DangitBobby• 3 years ago

You could always move somewhere with municipal fiber. Chattanooga Tennessee has arguably the best connectivity in the country!

After defending false data, Comcast admits another FCC broadband map mistake

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