Indie artist trying to claim his domain name

http://frontalot.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?p=48749#48749

by bwooceli • 15 years ago

38 37 15 years ago

hmottestad• 15 years ago

A guy trying to fight for the right to the domain name equivalent of his artist stage name.

It's just simply a call for help since he doesn't seem to know how to figure things out and he doesn't want to pay anyone to help him.

And it doesn't seem like he's tried to contact the owners of the domain. Which he can do here: http://rapmusik.net/?tmp=domain_inquiry_form

stfu• 15 years ago

Classic personal-army request. "Hey guys, I don't want to pay money and don't want to learn / invest the time myself to figure it out". But then of cause he has "fans" making this apparently an appropriate form of communication. They might even like the fact that he is asking them for "help".

Dav3xor• 15 years ago

Mc Frontalot has quite a few fans, he's got the biggest name in his genre -- plays PAX ever year...

nevinera• 15 years ago

Come on now. He's asking for help on his own forums.

If he posted such a request in some general forum you could shower him with derision for treating hn/reddit/4chan/sa as his 'personal army', since apparently you think insulting people who need help is more fun than ignoring them.

But it makes no sense in this context.

nhangen• 15 years ago

I'm still not sure I believe anyone has a right to a domain name, regardless of who's name it uses.

However, I put myself in his shoes and I can see how it would be frustrating at best. This is a remnant of the 'time before the Internet' and will eventually be solved when it becomes impossible to have created a name before the Internet existed. How can we best serve these cases without harming smart domain entrepreneurs in the future?

feralchimp• 15 years ago

I'm pretty sure I don't believe in either a) domain name rights as an extension of trademark protection, or b) the protection-worthiness of "domain entrepreneurs."

It's a race for which the correct moves (as others here have noted) are either to win (by luck or cash) or not to play (by choice).

rhplus• 15 years ago

Is this really something worth fighting for at this stage in his music career, especially if he's having to pay lawyers? There would be far more value in him cultivating a social media presence (Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Last.fm, MySpace, Vimeo, etc) than worrying about getting his coveted dot-com.

Having the perfect domain name just doesn't really matter that much for brand building any more, especially for "personalities". Musicians engage fans through Twitter, Facebook, whatever, and if you're stuck with mcfrontalotmusic.com or officialmcfrontalot.com or mcfrontalot.tv or mcfrontalot.dj... don't worry about it. Be consistent, build the fan base, link to your official site often and let the search engines figure it out. When he gets the big record deal, let the record company lawyers jump after the perfect domain.

udp• 15 years ago

> if you're stuck with mcfrontalotmusic.com or officialmcfrontalot.com or mcfrontalot.tv or mcfrontalot.dj... don't worry about it.

It's not even that bad, he has frontalot.com. I don't really know why he's bothering...

wizard_2• 15 years ago

He does alright on the social media front. He's also got five albums. Plays gigs pretty constantly. Beloved in the gamer community. Has had spots on NPR. Etc. Etc.

I've been a fan ever since his 2003 song fight entries and I still typo his domain from time to time.

ga• 15 years ago

I have a similar problem - but what do you do when your social media presence is "incomplete" ie the name is squatted on the 2 biggest of this list : facebook and youtube?

The name has been in use in business since 2001. I have the similar domain in .com etc. since 2003. I have a trademark on the term itself since last year.

the name on facebook is being held without serving any content, by a minor. On youtube another minor, though at least serving content.

I tried both youtube and facebook trademark report process - a mockery a best, requiring time and effort to get a scripted reply.

I will save you some time and money and give you their replies (I hope they're not copyrighted :-)

Facebook in reply to report an infringing username "While we appreciate your concerns, it appears that the user has a legitimate basis for selecting the username. If you believe this is incorrect, we recommend that you contact the user directly to address this issue."

Then you reply to that email, and get the very same reply. A chatbot could do that.

Youtube on trademark support : "Thank you for submitting your complaint. As a preliminary matter, please note that YouTube is not in a position to mediate trademark disputes between users and trademark owners. As a courtesy we have considered your claim, but do not find grounds to take action on your claim. If you have continued concerns, we encourage you to resolve the dispute with the uploader."

Yes, try that with someone who is not replying. Actually I'm considering paying a lawyer.

blauwbilgorgel• 15 years ago

204.138.26.200 is a problem IP.

Registrations like:

fasebook.com dailymtoion.com

Show with http://www.yougetsignal.com/tools/web-sites-on-web-server/

over 300.000 domains according to domaintools.com .

When searching for copy on their landing pages:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Try+Searching+the+Interne...

About 86.600 results for me.

Some pretty nasty spammy stuff in there. For example a result from the Google index that randomly redirects users to another domain, perhaps in violation of the guidelines.

saintrosehospital.com/ (original is strosehospital.org/)

medicalinformatoin.biz/ (for me)

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=%22try%20sear...

And various misspellings of schools, universities and "healthcare" websites like these.

Registering a trademarked domain name is stupid, but squatting on hospital websites is extremely low.

awolf4• 15 years ago

Does anyone have any experience attempting to claim a domain through arbitration?

I've been selling TapTyping on the App Store since the iPad came out almost 2 years ago but have been unable to negotiate with the individual who currently owns TapTyping.com. It was only recently that I applied for a trademark on "TapTyping" so it might still be a year before it is awarded.

The current owner has yet to do anything with the domain. It is just Godaddy parked. I've made the argument to him that at this point anything he did with the domain that was typing related would probably infringe on our future trademark but he simply replies that he "is not ready to sell the domain at this time".

I assume I am S.O.L. until my trademark goes through, but even once the trademark clears is this an open and shut low risk case as far as arbitration is concerned? Is it likely to be costly to claim domains in this fashion?

willwagner• 15 years ago

Just out of curiosity, if that person owned TapTyping.com before you started your business, is it really possible to create a trademark after the fact that would rule out him using the domain for anything typing relate?

Looking at it from the point of view of the domain owner, if I'm developing a website/product with a long development cycle, should I be trying to trademark the name as soon as I get the domain name to avoid someone swooping in after I buy the domain but before my site goes live?

dangrossman3• 15 years ago

Think about it from the view of the consumer, who trademarks and the UDRP are meant to protect.

Let's say you registered Xbox.com 15 years ago and only now launch a gaming device there. Should you be allowed to profit from this name Microsoft spent the last decade associating with their product on the open market? Is there a likelihood of people assuming a relationship to Microsoft when they visit this site?

Yes, irrelevant of when you started working, it would be in the best interest of consumers to let Microsoft have that domain. You have to think of domains as something like a brand mark, not a single piece of personal property you own. If you disagree with this process you essentially disagree with the principle of trademark protection.

Of course, if you registered Xbox.com 15 years ago and today launched a cardboard packaging company there, you'd have no problem and the panel would not give that domain to Microsoft. Nissan Motors lost its dispute for Nissan.com because the site is a computer company, not an auto company.

pmr_2• 15 years ago

I don't know much about copyright but infringing on something that is not yet in existence and being punished for it in retrospect seems just plain wrong to me. Is that even possible?

What should hinder him from getting the trademark himself? He apparently had the domain long before you had the intention to trademark something so he it would seem legitimate to award it to him.

larrys7• 15 years ago

"What should hinder him from getting the trademark himself"

You mean "a" trademark.

Nothing. That can be done and it's a good defensive strategy actually.

dangrossman3• 15 years ago

To get and defend a trademark you need to actually use the mark in commerce. Trademark exists for a specific purpose -- to avoid confusion as to the source of a product or service -- not just to sell off words and images for registration fees.

there2• 15 years ago

i registered my company's domain name in 1999 as a .net (because we were a networking company) and a squatter has been sitting on the .com since 2001. i eventually applied for and got a registered trademark on the company name.

since the squatted domain just showed a page full of ads, the whois information pointed to a holding company with a PO box in the cayman islands (how shady can you get), and they never responded to any inquiries about buying the domain, i tried to take it through UDRP.

i was betting on the squatters not responding (which would be a default judgement in my favor) and since i had a trademark on the name, i had the .net for longer than they had the .com, and the ads they were serving were somewhat related to my business (one of the 3 things you have to prove in your argument - that they were trying to be deceitful), i paid the UDRP fee ($1300) and just processed the paperwork myself.

surprisingly, the holding company responded to the dispute with lawyers, who wrote up a whole response claiming i was doing a "reverse hijacking" because i applied for the trademark after they registered the domain. maybe my arguments weren't solid enough and i should have paid a UDRP lawyer to handle it. i lost the case and didn't get the domain. not surprisingly, all of my documents that i mailed to their PO box were returned months later - their whois information was bogus.

shortly after that, they stopped serving ads on the domain, and now it just redirects to another domain. i can only hope that any money they've made on the ads from the domain was more than spent on the lawyers to respond to the case. though now i'm sure i'll never get the domain from them without paying tens of thousands of dollars.

larrys7• 15 years ago

"holding company with a PO box in the cayman islands (how shady can you get)"

Not shady at all.

"surprisingly, the holding company responded to the dispute with lawyers"

They responded because they own many names. And they can't afford to have a loss which could be held against them. Superblock.com is a decent domain so that's a reason right there to defend.

You could have checked history also by looking at whether they had defended other UDRP filings to determine your strategy.

Here is one case they one and one they lost. They selected the same panelist (you can choose panelists) that ruled for them in the previous case. In this case the opposite happened! (I would have never chosen the same panelist btw.)

http://www.udrpsearch.com/naf/849009

http://www.udrpsearch.com/naf/267475

"they never responded to any inquiries about buying the domain"

Did you write to them as "superblock.net" or from another address? Common mistake to write as someone who has rights to the name. That will completely spook them because the way this thing goes it can be used against you.

larrys7• 15 years ago

"domain through arbitration"

No such thing as "arbitration". There is filing a UDRP though. Or a cybersquatting lawsuit (non-starter just mentioning).

"selling TapTyping on the App Store since the iPad came out almost 2 years"

Because the domain was registered 6/2008, off the top without researching all the facts, you don't have a case from my experience. And filing will cost you (through http://www.adrforum.com) $1300 for 1 panelist and $2600 for 3 panelists. You can do this yourself but I wouldn't recommend going that route. There are other forums but last I checked adrforum.com is the most pro complainant as well as the least expensive (check, that may have changed but you won't find it for $9.95 or anything..). So if you need a lawyer to handle you need someone who specializes in this (you can write to me for suggestions). The cost for that is going to be in addition. That's if they take the case at all. The best ones might not take the case if they don't feel they will win because it will hurt their win rate.

"The current owner has yet to do anything with the domain. It is just Godaddy parked."

Of course as you know that doesn't mean anything. No requirement to use a domain name.

"he simply replies that he "is not ready to sell the domain at this time""

Could be true, or could be a standard reply to get you to offer up some money and obviously (to me that is) not jeopardize any future proceeding. Saying you will sell can be used against you.

"but even once the trademark clears is this an open and shut low risk case"

Not at all.

The advantage of filing is that the other person has to defend. That means they have to spend money and time. If the name isn't important they might just ignore the filing. In some cases when the filing is ignored the complainant gets the name by default. But not in every case. Sometimes the panelist(s) don't do that. Or they might reply, not use a lawyer, make a mistake and you might get the name.

My research indicates this is the guy that owns it (there are many Jeff Merediths but I believe this is the one based on the mit.edu and his linkedin)

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jeffrey-meredith/19/b35/b2

How much money is the domain worth to you at this point? What you are willing to spend determines strategy.

awolf4• 15 years ago

Thanks for the response Larry. Since all I'm willing to spend is in the ballpark of the UDRP filing, my major take-away is is that coming to an agreement without the use of legal tactics is optimal for both parties.

I was surprised to hear you say I have no case though. I thought that owner of a domain needed to be able to show intent to make use of it. Otherwise, it could be argued that they are squatting the domain and holding it in bad faith. Is this not the case?

RexRollman3• 15 years ago

I would like to point out that just because a website isn't being run doesn't mean the guy isn't doing anything with the domain.

I have to say that I think you come across as pretty arrogant.

awolf4• 15 years ago

Seems like an irrelevant comment. He's not doing anything publicly with the domain and never has.

And: If he were now to start doing something with the domain related to either tapping (as in on touch screens) or typing he could reasonably be said to be creating confusion for my customers. So what part of my comment seemed arrogant? Or do you just not like the cut of my jib?

bwooceli• 15 years ago

This was interesting to me just because its someone not in a technical field trying to navigate these waters. He is already taking the right steps with a lawyer but obviously didn't realize how hard it was going to be. He's been around for a long time and has finally achieved enough success to feel comfortable enough spending money on the lawyer to take something off his long term wish list.

jmcnevin• 15 years ago

For those who aren't familiar with MC Frontalot, might I suggest you check out "It is Pitch Dark," his rap about Zork.

http://youtu.be/4nigRT2KmCE

zerostar07• 15 years ago

First why would he want a domain that is now linked to spam/scams ?

Second, what is his legal claim, has he trademarked his commercial name?

Indie artist trying to claim his domain name

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