The Pirate Bay Will Stop Serving Torrents

http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-will-stop-serving-torrents-120112/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

by llambda • 15 years ago

295 86 15 years ago

GBiT• 15 years ago

Talking about magnet links I remembered KAD with ed2k and eMule. Its almost same. Bittorrent with magnet links just have different chunk size possibility to make faster download with smaller piece size.

Hemospectrum• 15 years ago

According to Wikipedia, magnet links are in fact based on ed2k and Freenet URIs.

icebraining2• 15 years ago

So, what if you don't run the client on the same machine you're browsing TPB with, like people who have torrent enabled routers or VPS/seedboxes? I suppose you can copy-paste the link to your client, but clients which had automatic pick-up of .torrent files (like rtorrent) were nice because you could just drop them on a remote directory and have them be downloaded.

I wonder if I could write a small application just to download the torrent file from the magnet link/DHT to copy it to the remote server afterwards.

botker• 15 years ago

See the shell script in the top comment here: http://libtorrent.rakshasa.no/ticket/2100

I tested it, and it works as advertised.

For firefox integration, in about:config create a new boolean as:

  network.protocol-handler.expose.magnet := false

For chromium integration, you need to use Xdg-open.

ben0x5392• 15 years ago

I suspect it'll be easier to patch the torrent client to accept magnet links fed through a named pipe, or in a text file in the drop-off directory, if it already supports magnet links.

sliverstorm• 15 years ago

Why not set up an email fetch service on the remote box, and email magnet links? Then just throw together a wrapper that looks for magnet links in new email. Viola!

tomkin2• 15 years ago

For a brief moment, the title sounded like TPB was going to blackout for "stop SOPA day". Wouldn't that be funny.

bdonlan3• 15 years ago

If the TPB were to actively oppose SOPA, it would just give the SOPA proponents more to work with - "Look, TPB is against it, so it must be a good thing!".

nestlequ1k2• 15 years ago

Brilliant point. Pirate Bay's best approach is to laugh at SOPA and make clear it will do nothing to stop them.

tomkin2• 15 years ago

It is a good point, however, I think it would be celebrated by the target audience. People, or the "average person" who wouldn't generally visit TPB, or know what it is, will probably not really care about it's support, or even what SOPA is for that matter.

For those who visit/use TPB, I think it would be akin to a rally call.

sjmulder• 15 years ago

What I’m wondering is whether it’s not yet possible to have a distributed, decentralised torrent database.

You could already put up a copy of the database as a torrent and distribute the magnet link, but you’d need some method for efficiently keeping it up to date.

jxcole• 15 years ago

DHTs/Torrents are great for static data (like a movie) but bad for dynamic data, like a website with a list of movies, their ratings, user comments, etc.

There are, however, other systems that are designed to combat this, like freenet. They tend to be overwhelmingly slow, because you need to pass lots of data around to make it consistent.

Then again, magnet links, titles, and a little html are probably not a lot of information, so it probably could be done. I just haven't heard of any attempts yet. It's tempting to go and write one. Could you make a decentralized, P2P version of reddit with distributed trust? I think it's possible but hasn't been tried.

bdonlan3• 15 years ago

Freenet isn't really good for this either - it's basically static data, too.

Fice• 15 years ago

For dynamic content there is I2P.

icebraining2• 15 years ago

I think the easiest way is to not make it really "dynamic" but an append-only structure of static content. For example a Reddit thread might be representable as a static list of actions (add reply, upvote, downvote, etc), which the client would process to get the current state.

That way, you could immediately download an earlier version of a resource and then get the updates as they spread through the network.

Zirro4• 15 years ago

I've been using mostly magnet links for the past year and haven't experienced any issues. If people understand that they work just like a normal link/torrent file, this won't make the process any more complicated. Hopefully this is another win in the long run, as links are harder to stop than files.

forgotusername• 15 years ago

Only slightly as I understand it, since from a legal perspective the intent of someone providing providing links instead of files doesn't change, and that's what counts.

From a technical perspective, and as someone who doesn't understand how magnet works under the hood, I'm slightly concerned that DHTs might be easier to attack in an underhanded manner than an HTTP server would have been.

Zirro4• 15 years ago

"Only slightly as I understand it, since from a legal perspective the intent of someone providing providing links instead of files doesn't change, and that's what counts."

Indeed, but a link can be posted anywhere a user can post text. Here, have Pioneer One:

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3a4be1d48c31dfa62bf52958f3fdca3d5ce91cf1&dn=Pioneer%20One%20SEASON1.720p%20x264-VODO

I can see this leading to a block on many sites on all links starting with the "magnet"-protocol, if it's not in place already. It also highlights the issue with SOPA further. Had that series not been allowed to be shared, Hacker News would be in big trouble for hosting the link.

Zirro4• 15 years ago

"I'm slightly concerned that DHTs might be easier to attack..."

The key is in the D. Since it is distributed, there's not a single server that can be attacked.

Fester• 15 years ago

It seems that TBP just taken another step to push judge and jury's confusion during next trials even further. "Y'know, we're trying to shut down pirates' secret base that... doesn't serve a single file!"

ars• 15 years ago

One drawback to magnet links is that you can not in advance see what files are there.

So if you only want to download some of them, you first have to wait for the magnet to download the torrent, then go back to it and pick the files you want.

A magnet link also makes it hard to check if the link you are looking at is a duplicate of what you have already.

With a torrent you can check the file size and compare to others.

ben0x5392• 15 years ago

There isn't really a reason the piratebay web interface couldn't display that info for you anyway.

sp332• 15 years ago

If users only upload the magnet file, the TPB wouldn't even know how big the file is, unless their servers queried the DHT for the .torrent file and extracted the data.

atlbeer• 15 years ago

Can someone fill me in on the first step a client (BT) would take to find its first peers? That part is a bit magic to me right now. What would be the first IP it would query and how would it know?

bdonlan3• 15 years ago

There are three main methods (in order of preference):

1. Use a cached list from a previous run. This is ideal in terms of load balancing, and also helps with bootstrap time if your IP hasn't changed, so all major torrent clients have such a cache.

2. Ask peers you're connected to via a traditional tracker and .torrent file. This is the next best thing, but can only be used if the first torrent you download is via a traditional tracker.

3. Use some bootstrap peers hardcoded into the torrent client. Has a single point of failure, but it works.

Each torrent client can use a different set of bootstrap peers, note - they're nothing special, just a DHT peer that has the bandwidth and CPU power to deal with bootstrap requests (which isn't a very high hurdle - you only get hit once, on the initial install, or if the client's been shut down for so long it no longer has any valid peers). Or the user might even supply their own, if need be.

kissickas• 15 years ago

Thanks for the information, this part was always a mystery to me as well.

To clarify, if someone has never downloaded a torrent before and starts with a rarely downloaded file, would the use of only magnet links mean they will probably not be able to find another peer? It sounds like unless you already have torrents downloaded, your list of possible peers to check for the file is very short.

iamandrus• 15 years ago

They announced that they were planning on doing this right when magnet links came out. I haven't used .torrent files since I discovered magnet links and I actually find they more convenient than downloading a torrent file.

gojomo2• 15 years ago

Hey! I invented the magnet link, almost 10 years ago.

Great to see it still evolving and spreading, based simply on its loosey-goosey merits.

nestlequ1k2• 15 years ago

It's weird, I've been seeing it for years but I never understood what it is. I still don't really.

But when I click on the magnets things seem to download immediately. So looks like you built something pretty amazing. Congrats!

zcid• 15 years ago

It's basically a URI that contains the torrent hash enabling a client to find peers through a decentralized network such as DHT instead of requiring a tracker. I believe you can append trackers and other info to the URI as well, but I'm not sure about that.

sown• 15 years ago

AFAIK, it's a torrent for a torrent; a DHT implementation. The URI for the magnet link has all the information it needs to find peers and start downloading the data, the first datum of which is the torrent file.

chimeracoder3• 15 years ago

The other two comments are (correctly) describing what a magnet link is in the sense of its implementation. On the off chance that you wanted a more abstract/basic description, a magnet link is defined by what you're linking to, as opposed to where it is.

This is kind of cool, because a file can change locations (how many times have you seen a dead link/File Not Found?), and with a magnet link, if you have a file that matches the description, you can be reasonably certain that you've found the right file (unlike the URIs you're familiar with, which can change the content stored at each location). On the flip side, actually finding the file from the description is a bit more complicated, but as you can see, it's still pretty easy for the user when implemented correctly.

It's better for TPB, because they're no longer telling you 'where' the file is, just what it 'looks' like. Legally, I'm sure that makes some difference.

invalidOrTaken• 15 years ago

Finding this sort of thing always makes me stop short and realize, "Oh yeah, no matter how smart I think I am, there are people a million times more accomplished than me on HN." Not to make me despair so much as take care to avoid blathering the first thing on my mind before reading and considering what others have said.

gojomo2• 15 years ago

The 'magnet URI' was merely the right suggestion, for a tiny sliver of shared convention, at the right time.

You can look at the original writeup – http://magnet-uri.sourceforge.net/magnet-draft-overview.txt – and find a goofy ad-hoc mechanism where local software interested in 'magnet' links listened for localhost web hits, in a certain port range, rather than fighting over the 'magnet' URI scheme handler. That could be seen as either a blathering kludge or a very early attempt at 'web intents'.

I don't know if any code other than my demo ever implemented that localhost-handler trick. But the main idea – of a generically-named URI that was descriptive rather than location-centric – had its own legs. It spread from software to software, even without any formal spec stewardship/revisions. A key step for its longevity, when 'magnet' was adopted to wrap the 'btih' identifiers for DHT-based torrent tracking, happened long after my attention moved elsewhere.

I'd like to think the continuing adoption was because the original draft, even though crude and incomplete, had the right mix of a familiar/defensible URI syntax, wide-open descriptor semantics, and a catchy name/icon.

cookiecaper3• 15 years ago

Good ideas don't have inventors so much as they have stewards. Keep trying and one day such a thing will find you. :)

noch2• 15 years ago

When multiple downloads of the same file are available it's usually beneficial to see and select the one with the highest number of seeds. If DHTs become the norm, will it still be possible to obtain and use such data?

tomp3• 15 years ago

If I understand magnet protocol correctly, it doesn't matter. If two files are the same, they have the same hash, so the system (DHT) cannot tell them apart.

If the files are different (e.g. 256 and 320 bitrate mp3 files), then that is a completely different problem.

kalmi10• 15 years ago

uTorrent 3.1 added support for BEP33 (DHT scrape), so apparently the answer is yes. http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0033.html

nodata• 15 years ago

Expect a knock on your door from the entertainment mafia's logic-focused lawyers.

skrebbel• 15 years ago

Ups to you! I think (and hope) that we haven't seen the end of magnet yet. I wish the scientific community would start using magnet links for paper references, instead of archaic bibtex layouts combined with online publishers who charge 30 dollars without adding value.

Corrado• 15 years ago

This site (http://www.ghacks.net/2010/06/05/what-is-a-magnet-link-and-h...) explains what Magnet links are and how trackers have traditionally worked in the past.

ajtaylor• 15 years ago

The original article had a link to this (http://torrentfreak.com/bittorrents-future-dht-pex-and-magne...) which I found a bit more helpful explaining the concepts.

afhof• 15 years ago

Don't the torrent files contain all the hashes for each piece? Doesn't that mean if a single piece is bad, the entire torrent can't be verified? Torrent files contain a lot of useful data that isn't found in a magnet URI. Is this just being ignored?

skymt• 15 years ago

The hash in a magnet URI is of the info dictionary in the .torrent file. It's used to query the BitTorrent DHT for peers running the same torrent. Once another peer is found, your client will download the full metadata file from it, and from there it works just like any other BitTorrent download.

http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0005.html http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0009.html

pornel• 15 years ago

I hope that before .torrent files are gone, they (or some scraper) will publish them all as a torrent.

Somebody did that last time PB was in trouble, e.g. one of the pieces: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:4232363a47fe29acdf2c77874365a5e3368854b4&

That's a pretty interesting dataset to mine.

chimeracoder3• 15 years ago

Why? What would the point of the .torrent files be if the magnet links are still there?

stfu• 15 years ago

It is still fascinating how resilient not only Piratebay but also others such as Demonoid have become. A few years ago it looked like they were close to getting shut down. It is impressive how they are now able to withstand all the "forces" and Governments had to shift their focus towards the ISPs.

joejohnson• 15 years ago

How does this change the process for uploading a new torrent to TPB?

Refringe• 15 years ago

For the time being, nothing. However, once TPB goes full magnet you'll just submit a link instead of a file. It should make the process easier.

sp0rus• 15 years ago

This is definitely a step in the right direction. Not saying this is a good step to increase piracy, but there really is no need for trackers when we have magnets, and this will lead to a healthier bittorent community.

nextparadigms• 15 years ago

Since they are doing this big change, is there a way to make it more secure on the user side, too? Like encrypt the traffic and make it impossible for RIAA to track IP's?

Also since they say that it's like every user would have the TPB site on their computer, does it mean blocking the site would be completely useless? And since they are just links, and links are pretty much speech, I figure it would be impossible to turn it into law as well, to specifically target magnet based sites like TPB.

teraflop• 15 years ago

The entire design of Bittorrent is predicated on clients advertising to each other which torrents they're seeding and which pieces are available. You can encrypt your traffic to get it past your ISP's deep packet inspection, but the peer at the other end has to be able to decrypt it. And you have no way of knowing what nefarious organization controls that peer.

instakill• 15 years ago

Can anyone say what the gist of this article is? Blocked from torrent sites at work.

keypusher• 15 years ago

Piratebay will now serve magnet links by default instead of .torrent files. For the average user, not much will change. For some particular use cases, there may have to be adjustments.

jmtame• 15 years ago

From what I understand, DHT has a big trade-off vs BitTorrent: DHTs are crawlable[1] and copyright holders can more easily track who holds copies of what yet it's easier to duplicate search engines like TPB within hours for the same reason.

So the effect seems to be that the RIAA, MPAA, etc. will likely not be able to take down trackers; they'll have to revert back to suing their "customers" (or lobbying to pass absurd legislation for that matter).

[1] http://z.cs.utexas.edu/users/osa/unvanish/papers/vanish-brok...

chimeracoder3• 15 years ago

> Perhaps even better, without the torrent files everyone can soon host a full copy of The Pirate Bay on a USB thumb drive, which may come in handy in the future.

I've been saying this for years: governments playing an arms race with hackers is like playing Whack-a-mole or cutting of heads of hydras. Every time you block one means of communication (starting in this case with Napster), a new, more decentralized, harder-to-combat protocol is going to emerge. Even if you're the MPAA and don't like copyright violations, you have to face that fact. That doesn't mean you (necessarily) have to throw in the towel and abandon the idea of copyright infringement altogether, but it does mean you need to start being creative instead of engaging in a direct legal-technological battle - an arms race.

I wonder how long it will take before the big players realize this and try to figure out a way to use this new playing field (the Internet) to their advantage, instead of trying to squelch any technological development so that they can cling to old models of payment and distribution. It was nice while it happened, but let's face it - we're past the point of no return. Even if they everyone hosted their own copies of TPB on their thumb drives and then they found some way to shut that down, I'm certain there'd be some hacker smart enough (like gojomo above) to come up with something that just makes things even less centralized, more difficult to track, and more difficult to shut down.

Helianthus• 15 years ago

The big players are defeated by the new playing field. There is no "their advantage," there's just a major change in how we produce content.

It's away from exploitation of artists and the control of artistic message.

beedogs2• 15 years ago

The production, the marketing the, distribution... EVERYTHING has changed for the music industry in about 15 years. They have no future unless the Internet is tightly controlled (which it cannot be.)

ward• 15 years ago

> This is topical, since this week courts in both Finland and the Netherlands ordered local Internet providers to block the torrent site.

Is there a list of countries where this has been ordered by courts? I know it's already the case in my country (Belgium) as well[1].

[1] http://torrentfreak.com/belgium-starts-blocking-the-pirate-b...

jdefarge• 15 years ago

Pirate Bay is the BEST torrent site ever created. It's a pity they are switching to Magnet. :( It would be so cool if they provided both (Magnet and Torrent)...

The Pirate Bay Will Stop Serving Torrents

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