I am so sick of job ads

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3431256

by blago • 15 years ago

33 12 15 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

These days it's hard to come across an ad that doesn't seem like it came straight out of some fictional (?) book on how to hire "top talent". They all seem like copy and past work. I am particularly put off by the part that is supposed to entice us all: the perks. "Come solve hard problems at XXX", "bagels", "coke", "pizza", "hardware". Really?

Let me tell you a secret. Almost none of use are looking for a job. We all solve hard problems. Chances are, people that are paid upwards of 100K already have a functional development machine. I for one will have a hard time deciding where in the basement to shove your kick-ass hardware. Bagels and pizza are rather standard (sorry, it's not that we are spoiled, it's just the way it is) and aren't going to make anyone quit their jib, let alone move halfway across the country (unless you are after college dropouts). Video games are... well we all know that they are a joke, unless you have no life/family and want to hangout in the office after a 12 hour day.

You are in the business of changing the game. Your job ads are copy and paste. How do you feel when you read a resume full of clichés and feels like it was copied from the internet 5 years ago? Get a grip and start hiring remotely. You might as well change the game.

P.S. There is nothing magic about the words: "Come solve hard problems at XXX". We are not conditioned to salivate when we hear them.

redorb• 15 years ago

A nice development machine is always awesome. I think the magic part of "Come solve hard problems at XXX" is the 'xxx' part where xxx is associated with a great incubator and/or great funding and/or great founders (past success). I don't think they are looking for folks already making $100k.

"Unless your after college dropouts" sounds cynical.

googoobaby• 15 years ago

Don't forget the ubiquitous 'ninja' and 'rockstar' references. Or the threats/promises of how difficult the hiring process will actually be. You'd think you were trying to join the Navy SEALs rather than an SEO startup ensuring that one "herbal Viagra" site shows up above another.

dextorious• 15 years ago

Yeah, or some crappy vc-funded startup that will "change the world" by socializing pictures of your pets and allowing the pets themselves to "like" on each other's pictures...

philgo20• 15 years ago

And any tips on what makes a great job ad? I mean we all work hard to get in touch with great people when you start a project but sometimes you simply have to throw something out there to cast a wider net.

devs1010• 15 years ago

keep it minimal, don't list skills that aren't needed, if you don't need someone with 7 years experience don't say you do, etc.. when job ads make it seem like they "want it all" it turns people off, honestly the ones that appeal to me most are the ones where you know the person who wrote it know what they are talking about, such as they only list related technologies, like Java, Spring, Hibernate and they don't randomly throw in something unrelated, like "also nice to have php, perl and ruby experience" when every other skill requested is related to java.. just an example but something I've noticed.

caw2• 15 years ago

I've noticed that as well. For the RoR jobs at least, they list a bunch of gems that they use, as if this is the only thing you can or ever use, or else we won't hire you. Sure, in some cases you need a specific toolset, but it's not always the case.

I think the job postings from startups with the random other stuff are more well thought out about what's involved (or could be) in your day to day.

crcsmnky• 15 years ago

Part of the problem with these job ads is that the writer is trying to communicate their level of passion and excitement about the position and how they feel that the person they hire will have an impact (at least on the organization). Instead it often comes off sounding corny at best and arrogant at worst.

Ideally, job ads would have some or all of the following traits:

- very up front on their hiring process (phone, in-person, project, etc.)

- recognize the difference between skills needed for 90% of the work vs those needed for the other 10% (tends to follow along the required vs "bonus" or "nice to have" skills)

- instead of saying "we're changing the world" they say something more realistic like "we're making enterprise SaaS analytics better"

- recognize that devs appreciate having a good plan for product development (and some tools/processes behind it) over snacks, soda and pizza

- tell me the types of tasks I'll have to deal with on a day to day basis

- tell me how they expect this position to grow or change (if even at a high level, i.e. do they have a plan for this person)

Basically, the more "real" they are tells me how self-aware they are and how serious of a candidate they're looking for. That sells me way more than the bullshit perks.

s_henry_paulson• 15 years ago

You claim: "Almost none of use are looking for a job"

but being "so sick" of job ads.

If you're not looking for a job, stop looking at job ads. Problem solved.

If you are looking for a job, chances are you aren't sick of job ads, and welcome as many as you can find.

We all know that HR people are rarely super technical, and are just trying to sell their company the best they can.

If you're incapable of researching a company on your own, and deciding whether the work they do is something you'd be interested in, then I don't know what to tell you.

You offer condescending criticism, yet no solutions. If you tend to present things in this fashion, no-one will hire you.

caw2• 15 years ago

> If you're not looking for a job, stop looking at job ads. Problem solved.

The main page of HN tells me what technology people find interesting.

The job postings tell me what people will pay money for.

I for one have a job but still look at the postings to find out what employers are looking for, and also which employers are looking, should I show up one day and find that I don't have a job.

JS_startup• 15 years ago

He is criticizing the ubiquity of cheesy job postings trying to attract top talent with trivial/hackneyed promises of things like bagels and beanbag chairs. His solution is for job postings to stop doing this.

Forrest7778• 15 years ago

I disagree somewhat to this. I agree that most of the job ads are very similar and I also think that they could be a bit more descriptive.

I enjoy reading the job ads and like researching what roles they are trying to fill, I realize this is just my opinion as yours differs, and I'm not justifying the need for them. I'm just saying that I appreciate them and would like it if the job ads would include more information at times.

All of this is coming from someone who isn't prosperous in the tech field, nor am I actually looking for a job at this point, it's just something that interests me.

DE4DBEEF• 15 years ago

The truth of the matter is that no amount of pizza, videogames, ball pits and monitors is going to make me want to write CRUD interfaces for your boring IT management solution cloud platform thing..

Any decent hacker can get any of those jobs at a minute's notice. Instead convince me that what I'll do will matter, that my work will have significant impact on the company's future, that I will get to choose the direction of many decisions in the company from the minute I join. Convince me that I'll be surrounded by people from whom I'll be learning on daily basis, who deeply care about their work and becoming better as a team.

Any jobs like that out there? Very very few. Also they will not be available through job posts, you'll need to know people for those spots.

I am so sick of job ads

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