Bitcoin has rallied. What are crypto’s true believers still smoking?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2022/dec/14/bitcoin-has-rallied-what-are-cryptos-true-believers-still-smoking

by edward • 4 years ago

2 19 4 years ago

theguardian.com

janandonly• 4 years ago

# There are a bunch of metrics that are very positive for bitcoin:

1. With the fall of FTX/Alameda, and previously 3AC and Celsius, more users are realizing that an old rallying cry for bitcoin still holds true: not your keys, not your coins. Every new 'generation' of users (bitcoin is in its eternal September) has to learn the same lessons as others learned before. So, you would expect to see more self custody of coins, and that is precisely what the on-chain metrics show. See also https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/mt-gox-hack/

2. Real-world adoption is growing with great products like Strike build on top of the fast and cheap Lightning network (one of the various second layers build on top of L1 Bitcoin). See https://bitcoinist.com/watch-jack-mallers-send-free-instant-...

3. More people realize the long view, and buy and hold for multiple years. See also https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/the-hodl-model

senttoschool4• 4 years ago

2. Real-world adoption is growing.

Real-world adoption is shrinking.

neb_b3• 4 years ago

Do you have stats for that?

colesantiago3• 4 years ago

The speculative adventure of this industry full of scams has been hilarious to watch, and once hard regulations kick in all of it will go to zero.

There is no legitimate real world use case for all of this. Full stop.

dmantis• 4 years ago

Good luck safely store your money being Russian or Iranian (or other citizen of any fascist regime who is considered not a human by both his own country and westerns). Not a legitimate case, I suppose.

neb_b3• 4 years ago

What about instantly sending money to Africa very cheaply?

andirk4• 4 years ago

I use bitcoin to buy things all the time. Full stop. I've made a bunch of money from that investment too. Full stop. Having a currency that is not bound to a state can very possibly be a good thing. Full stop. Scams exist in many industries and in crypto it is rampant due to its lax regulations but that doesn't mean the industry is a scam by definition. Full stop.

I wonder if this is what telegrams read like.

senttoschool4• 4 years ago

Since crypto doesn't have any intrinsic value to base its prices on, it essentially follows US interest rate news and Nasdaq.

Also, the occasional pump by Tether other shady stable coins.

andirk4• 4 years ago

Now that it follows stonks and other traditional investments makes crypto less interesting to me, but that's just my gambling side. Its intrinsic value is that it is an avenue of transacting value outside of the reach of the exact governments and their policies (see: 2008) that caused Satoshi to create it in the first place. And Tether is a joke.

WheelsAtLarge• 4 years ago

People don't get it. Bitcoin is equivalent to a religion. The believers will always believe. It's here to stay no matter what. It might fall to a fraction of its current value but people will hold on to it and buy more.

The gold believers are the say way.

senttoschool4• 4 years ago

In my opinion, it's like a MLM scheme. Once you buy in, you enrich the ones before you. Now you must shill and do marketing for the next buyer.

It's dangerous.

andirk4• 4 years ago

There is literally zero functionality in bitcoin that states one gets richer from getting more people in. That's called supply and demand. I'm a big fan of crypto but I also see these huge peaks and valleys in valuation as a sign that it is treated as a get-rich-quick scheme by many, but bitcoin exists as a means of transacting value outside of state-owned currency. It's pretty rad, but unhinged speculation paints it as a casino. 40x valuations of the next photo sharing app is speculative and outright bullshit too but we don't say photo sharing is an MLM.

jfengel• 4 years ago

All currency ultimately comes down to an act of faith. But in the case of fiat money, that faith is in a government that is already providing you a bunch of infrastructure, paid for in fiat currency and demanding the same fiat currency in return (taxes, tariffs, etc.)

It's still a kind of faith, but it's like faith in a deity that at least intermittently actually shows up to do something. Not the kind who "works in mysterious ways" that seem indistinguishable from random chance.

Cryptocurrencies rely on individuals to provide that intermittent evidence for faith. You're trusting that people will pay you for your goods and services in the currency, and will accept your currency for the goods and services they offer. (Or at least, trade it easily for a different currency that people will accept.)

In theory, that could work. In practice, those people are crypto enthusiasts, who aren't really the kind of people you have a lot of faith in. Some of them are criminals, trying to take advantage of circumventing regular channels. That is, at least, a real thing -- unlike the other enthusiasts, who are in only because "line goes up" and don't have goods or services to offer for your currency. That latter faith is easily fractured -- and exists at all only because there are a lot of such people.

Bitcoin has rallied. What are crypto’s true believers still smoking?

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