Raspberry Pi shortage drives Enthusiasts to turn to used thin-client PCs

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/11/used-thin-client-pcs-are-an-unsexy-readily-available-raspberry-pi-alternative/

by PaulHoule • 4 years ago

36 23 4 years ago

arstechnica.com

akulbe2• 4 years ago

I paid a scalper's price to get the CM4 module I wanted. Now I'm trying to sell my old module.

The market has certainly been brutal for Raspi stuff.

mdmglr• 4 years ago

I have given away all my Raspberry Pi’s. It’s a dead platform to me.

I’ve found thin-clients and “mini”/small form factor PC’s like the HP EliteDesk and Chrome TV Boxes that can run Linux on eBay for less than $70 USD. And significantly more powerful. I let an arduino handle GPIO with a USB serial interface. Great deals can be found from IT equipment liquidators who have 1000s of those types of machines.

What drove me to those x86 machines was I needed to run some proprietary scanner drivers for a project. And those driver were only available for x86.

akulbe2• 4 years ago

What makes it a dead platform to you?

sidewndr46• 4 years ago

Do you care to share any of the model numbers you have found that you can load custom software on?

I was at Goodwill once and they had an essentially endless supply of some x86 thin-client for $9.95 each. The problem was I couldn't find any info about how to run my own OS on it.

slim• 4 years ago

did you try booting debian from a usb stick on it ?

skelpmargyar• 4 years ago

It never made sense to use Raspberry Pi's for an overwhelming majority of projects that are entirely software based. They're a hobbyist prototyping and learning tool. If you're not using GPIO and if space/energy is not a requirement, why bother with them? They're slow, take an abundance of accessories and life support extensions such as RTC, fans, PCIe, HDMI adapters, and even sound cards to be comparable in functionality to any old business Goodwill PC. Also, they're not upgradable.

That being said, I have used them on several hobbyist projects and enjoy how they're exceptionally easy to use and their abundant documentation. But I feel like people VASTLY overuse them in place of other solutions.

sigjuice2• 4 years ago

Can't collect Goodwill PCs in a drawer :p

trillic• 4 years ago

Running whole home synchronized audio on thin clients would use a lot more power, and likely be more expensive or about the same than my setup with Pi Zeros with PoE and a USB DAC.

pasabagi• 4 years ago

I tried the thin-client thing and there are definitely pros and cons.

Second hand thin clients are indeed often cheaper, have more ports, are upgradable. However, if you're buying a $5 computer off ebay, you can't always find everything you want, and you might find that the hardware isn't ideal for what you're doing.

The nice thing about a raspberry pi is you know exactly what hardware you're going to get, what dimensions its going to have, etc, at a reasonable price point.

(Another advantage: when it breaks, you can get a drop-in replacement).

jeffalyanak2• 4 years ago

The reason I don't use an old, general-purpose PCBs for the types of projects you describe is because they're generally very poor in the terms of performance-to-power ratio.

SBCs like the raspi are much more power efficient, but I absolutely agree that they're not the only option.

Another great option for certain types of projects are used smartphones. You'll need to put thought into the specific models that will support your needs, but many android phones can be readily converted into low-power Linux machines and—with the right adapter—can be used with a wired ethernet adapter without losing charging.

If you want to host a simple web service, something that draws only a few watts and has a built-in UPS (its a cellphone, after all, and has a battery) can be pretty compelling.

Add to that the fact that you can often pick up a reasonably powerful, used android phone for less than the cost of an SBC if the screen is cracked.

mxuribe3• 4 years ago

...Another great option for certain types of projects are used smartphones...

This is exactly what i am about to embark on! I have a couple of used (but no longer using) smart phones....and instead of playing with a raspberry pi, wanted to see what i can do with these devices. The 2 first iodeas i have are:

1. a ready-to-go, backup device. Much like a Go Bag, set up a smart phone to be a hot backup destination...so if something drastic happens - like house fire, etc. - i can just pull the phone, and have a backup literal;ly in my hands, etc. (And, no i won't be doing away with my offsite backup...Remember the 3-2-1 backup strategy is still valid!)

2. a mobile ssh/bastion accessing device. Basically setup a little server to use to ssh, jump to oither servers. This use-case is really not necessary for me; more of just playing. But i can imagine if someoine lives in an area where their mobile access is steady and their mains internet access gets not so dependable....this coiuld be a way to still be able to access other servers (via mobiel data connection of course)....and this doesn't need superfast 5G type of connection, since its only ssh-type of jump connection.

Obviously, there are tons of other use cases....so you so right about thinking about using devices like smart phones....esepcially sinc it also helps avoid these devices going to the trash! :-)

selfhoster11• 4 years ago

For my use cases, space and energy are very much part of the consideration. If I'm going to run something 24/7, then I want to be sure it draws as little power and uses up as little space in my flat as possible.

joezydeco• 4 years ago

I have work-related ARM dev boards all over my desk but I bought a used Dell Xeon workstation for $50 on eBay and it runs the whole house. And if you're really concerned about power consumption, take the GPU out of your gaming PC.

gjsman-1000• 4 years ago

Bought a Raspberry Pi 4 4GB and won a Pi 4 2GB from a raffle before the shortages began.

Never use them. Thin clients (like, 1L) are better at almost everything, even if more expensive. Most of my projects are software-related and don't require GPIO. Anything that needs GPIO... there's a thing called an Arduino. Old school, but having no OS, more GPIO, more voltage flexibility, much smaller sizes, and plenty of availability is pretty nice. Plus Arduinos in my experience are much more consistently predictable in how they will behave (no worrying if your SystemD service that starts your Python script was correctly configured, no SD Card corruption, no need to update software). If I ever need GPIO... I can just combine Arduino + Thin Client.

gandalfff• 4 years ago

Old Intel Mac Minis are great for this purpose. Easily found on eBay, and consume less power than most Intel desktops of the same vintage.

mxuribe3• 4 years ago

How do you find that these intel Mac Minis run linux distros?

sigjuice2• 4 years ago

The Ubuntu wiki has a table that includes a list of Mac mini models. Other distros might provide similar information.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages

comprambler• 4 years ago

There are "desktop PCs" that use laptop parts which could be a good substitution if as other people have mentioned, you don't need GPIO. Very small, low power usage, swappable SATA/M.2 (if new enough) and SODIMMS, and mobile CPU bins (run cool). Some even come with serial!

Dell Optiplex Micro Lenovo Thinkcentre Tiny Various Intel NUCs

BizarroLand• 4 years ago

If you want to do this, pass on the Lenovos. Their thin clients and USFF pcs are often bios locked to specific hardware.

I was given one that would have made a decent media PC for the living room if the wifi wasn't ancient, I want to say it was an early Wireless N 150 card.

I swapped out that card for a same sized, same brand Wireless AC card and the PC would no longer boot thanks to some "An approved network card is not installed" BS message in the BIOS.

People have used long workarounds to edit the BIOS to allow these systems to boot with "unapproved" cards, but even for free it's not worth it to me.

There are a lot of good HPs & Dells in the same price/performance category that will simply work without the headache.

abudabi123• 4 years ago

That's not a thinclient. That's a doorstop. PC vendors have the Microsoft Zune design auteur and it gets no better at the higher priced end. That 32Gb ARM devkit from Microsoft has the Zune design problem, the latest Mac Mini sort of is like that too. Glad the head of Apple design is moving on.

Enthusiasts have the option for new SBC [0], but piecing together the accessory hardware is a minefield for those uninterested. I'd like a no fuss flirc case for the Rock5 and all the cables.

[0] https://ameridroid.com/products/rock5-model-b

icybox• 4 years ago

Been converting friends and colleagues to refurbished Fujitsu Futros S720 for quite some time, because RasPis are not attainable. They go for like €21 with 2G mSata SSD and 2G RAM, it's dual-core AMD SoC with up to 1.65GHz CPU frequency and 4-12W power usage.

They can be upgraded up to 1T mSata (limit) + 1T (or bigger) 2.5" SSD in mirror, 8G DDR3 SO-DIMM RAM or for example w/ 2 port GigE Realtek Network card in the mPCIe slot (reusing m-sata plastic stando-ffs). The SoC (AMD Jaguar core (AMD GX-217GA)) even have AES-NI.

For the SSD, you just need L-Shaped SATA cable and USB header to SATA power cable for peanuts from ali express.

some more info at https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/Futro/s720/ with photos of the motherboard.

S920 has even PCIe slot, so with riser or ribbon cable, you could hook up 4 port intel GigE network card and have 5 port firewall with pfSense, OPNsense or OpenBSD router.

I run mine with OpenWRT, because that mpcie 2-port GigE card is Realtek with lousy support in anything else than Linux.

What's uber-awesome with these boxes, they're passively cooled, so there's no noise apart some minor coil whine at boot.

EDIT: The box has mSata and mPCIe slots, but only plastic stand-offs in mSata. Ethernet card goes into mPCIe, reusing the stand-offs. Fixed that.

Raspberry Pi shortage drives Enthusiasts to turn to used thin-client PCs

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