N. Korean leader Kim Jong Il dies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16239693

by josscrowcroft • 15 years ago

327 71 15 years ago

bbc.co.uk

andrewljohnson• 15 years ago

How about a black banner, pg?

dmerfield• 15 years ago

Some people have no sense of humour.

rdtsc• 15 years ago

One for Vaclav Havel would have made sense though.

codyrobbins2• 15 years ago

Thank god.

andrewfelix3• 15 years ago

You'd think god would have done something sooner.

EDIT: This joke going over a few heads?

codyrobbins2• 15 years ago

God doesn’t exist: it’s simply an interjection. One that expresses my gladness over the death of someone who is legitimately an evil person.

nknight• 15 years ago

> This joke going over a few heads?

That this isn't reddit seems to have gone over both your heads.

andrewfelix3• 15 years ago

"died on Saturday of physical and mental over-work." His propaganda machine is still alive and well.

willchang• 15 years ago

This is something of a trope. In Imperial China the death of an emperor was often ascribed to "積勞成疾", which literally translates to "illness from accumulated labor".

robryan2• 15 years ago

Will be interesting to see if his son and chosen successor is able to retain power and persure a similar governing style. Seems like the perfect opportunity for change in North Korea.

zmanji• 15 years ago

I wonder if his son's violent statements toward SK will turn into violent actions.

josscrowcroft• 15 years ago

Yeah, I think everyone will be watching closely to see where this goes.

This is a two-year-old article but it's pretty interesting to read: "North Korea After Kim Jong Il: Four Scenarios" http://www.nps.edu/Academics/centers/ccc/publications/Online...

nekojima6• 15 years ago

A mixture of scenarios two and three have long been considered the most likely by many "informed" (a relative term for NK) observers.

kposehn3• 15 years ago

North Korea is very skilled at manipulating world opinion to seem like a rogue state. They know very well that their existence depends on never taking action, no matter what they say.

Think of them like a crazy family member that keeps in trouble unless people pony up cash and you pretty much have their entire strategy in a nutshell.

einhverfr• 15 years ago

Well, beyond that you have the fact that in order to maintain the kind of control that the regime maintains, they need isolation. This means that they do things to get isolated, so that the North Koreans get only one side of things.

As US News and World Report once commented, threatening the North Korean government with isolation was like threatening a drowning man with a life preserver.....

samstave• 15 years ago

Not for at least 20+ years.

His son is about to achieve one of the last great overt dictatorships in the world.

I bet everything he is going to want to taste that power for a long time before he actually does something aggressive.

That is not to say he doesnt press his luck, make a strategic failure and gets attacked (e.g. not accepting a rothschild-backed central bank)

diamondhead5• 15 years ago

Another article that shows HN turned into a regular American newspaper.

jevinskie2• 15 years ago

You don't think this headline will be running across all the world's newspapers tomorrow?

jellicle• 15 years ago

I think he thinks exactly that. Which is why it makes a bad HN submission. Flagged.

diamondhead5• 15 years ago

I don't give a piece of shit to international politics. If I did, I would read globalsecurity.org which does it very well.

BTW American newspapers are much more interested at the politics of other countries because of the leadership of US.

robryan2• 15 years ago

Hardly, HN only covers world events with real global significance. I enjoy reading HN users takes on this kind of news as I find it interesting to discuss this kind of news but comments on mainstream news sites are terrible and I don't really have the time to invest in other sites with quality comments who cover this stuff in far higher volume.

hartror• 15 years ago

Agreed, the tone and community here provide interesting discussion and insights on the really big turning points such as these. Comparably on reddit there is a lot of chaff to work through to get to the interesting kernels.

diamondhead5• 15 years ago

Would you like to have a hacker community having smart conversations about Britney Spears and Paris Hilton, too?

TeMPOraL2• 15 years ago

I'm personally very happy that such articles appear here. I got used to the fact that HN covers only significant geopolitical events, so I can ditch every other news service and be sure that if something of actual importance happens, it'll be covered here as well.

Also, I'd be hard pressed to find such quality of discussions anywhere else.

tomflack2• 15 years ago

I wonder if his son is prepared for the massive power play that will come from the military brass over the next few months.

nekojima6• 15 years ago

Not likely. Kim Jong Il's brother-in-law was generally understood/guessed to be the one holding the reins of power in 2008 when Kim was ill then and will likely take firmer control again, even if its from behind the scenes, using Kim Jong Un as a figurehead for perhaps a decade. This is similar to what happened when Kim took over in 1994 after his father's death.

There isn't sufficient command & control capability or maneuverability for the NK military to take swift control of the country or perhaps even the capital, if the party apparatus (cadre, spies, police, informants) doesn't stand in its way.

tomflack2• 15 years ago

I purposely chose "power play" over "coup d'etat" to allow for less sweeping changes. There will certainly be a push by the military for a greater share of power.

wilzy• 15 years ago

This is a big blow to http://kimjongillookingatthings.tumblr.com/

artursapek• 15 years ago

I swear this thread is a mirror of the reddit thread on the same topic...

cdcarter• 15 years ago

http://kimjongunlookingatthings.tumblr.com is up and running though.

maeon3• 15 years ago

After his death, Kim Il-sung was declared the country's Eternal President.

Could it be possible to take control of North Korea by getting a plant in there, killing Kim II Sung and his family and then using his power to work behind the signs and use the totalitarian Stalinist dictatorship to morph the country into a free capitalistic republic? Sounds like something the special forces could do in a few weeks, it just has to be a surprise so the military doesn't get a chance to respond.

Not doing anything seems cruel and unusual punishment. We may be born there in your next lives, wouldn't you want someone to do something about it?

ceejayoz• 15 years ago

> Sounds like something the special forces could do in a few weeks, it just has to be a surprise so the military doesn't get a chance to respond.

Right, because surprising nutjobs with nukes is a great idea.

Murkin• 15 years ago

Talk about good timing.

With the political climate of change in afrika and middle east, this might be a great reason for the goverment to tear itself apart as various factions try to take over 'in the name of the people'

We do live in exciting times

blhack• 15 years ago

He's been grooming Kim Jong Un (his son) for quite a while now.

nekojima6• 15 years ago

Kim Il Sung was his father.

Kim Jong Il's son Kim Jong Un is the annotated successor, though will be a puppet for a while, if he survives the next few days and weeks.

phaus• 15 years ago

In North Korea "grooming" refers to randomly placing some spoiled little fat kid in charge of the entire North Korean military ahead of all the four star generals after you have a stroke and realize that you aren't the immortal demigod that you once thought you were.

This isn't meant as a jab at your comment, I just think it is really funny that anyone including his father would think that he is capable of running a country. On the other hand I guess he can't do much worse than dad.

yread• 15 years ago

Nobody wants an unstable North Korea with nuclear weapons tearing itself apart.

michaelcampbell• 15 years ago

Nobody wants an unstable North Korea with nuclear weapons, period.

Well, except maybe North Korea.

Tsagadai• 15 years ago

I've lived in South Korea for two years and this is the most I've ever heard people talk about Kim Jong Il or North Korea. Even the shelling of Yeonpyeong Island in 2010 didn't generate this much talk. This is also the first time I've ever heard anyone tell a joke about North Korea. People are telling jokes in the street right now.

raldi• 15 years ago

What's an example of the kind of jokes South Koreans tell about Kim?

kposehn3• 15 years ago

Get some video! I'd love to hear what others are saying.

sairion• 15 years ago

Maybe the joke what he heard was about his cause of death. I am South Korean and there are many joking tweets about it. It's not really usual expression in South. But after I read the comment below about the chinese trope, understood why they announced like that...

nekojima6• 15 years ago

North Korean jokes/humour

First story

Jung Man Yong, a farmer at a collective farm in North Korea, catches a large fish in the river. Exalted, Jung comes back home and asks his wife to fry the fish. “We can have fried-fish for dinner!” said Jung. “But we don’t have oil.” “Then, let’s have steamed fish.” “We don’t have an iron pot either!” “OK, then let's just grill it.” “There is no firewood.” Angrily Jung goes back to the river and lets the fish go free. The fish circles around and jumps out of the water, yelling “Long live the General Kim Jong Il!”

Second story

At the museum, there is a painting in which Adam and Eve are holding an apple. A Briton says, “They are Britons. The gentleman is sharing a delicious apple with a lady.” A Frenchman says, “They must be French. They are walking around in the nude.” A North Korean says, “They are North Korean. They have no clothes and little food but think of themselves as living in paradise.”

Third story

Kim Jong Il inspected a collective farm and found some cute little pigs. He decided to take a picture with those pigs. That evening, a North Korean newspaper editor was put in the awkward situation of writing a caption for that picture to go in the paper. “Well… ‘Comrade Kim Jong Il among pigs..’” “No, ‘The pigs are with Comrade Kim Jong Il.’” “That doesn't work either.” Finally, the paper was published the next day with the caption, ‘Comrade Kim Jong Il is third from the left.’

Fourth story

A Briton, a Frenchman, and a North Korean are having a conversation. The Briton: “I feel happiest when relaxing before the fireplace on a winter night.” Frenchman: “You guys are too old fashioned. I feel happiest when I go on vacation with a beautiful blonde and then beak up with her up on my way home.” North Korean: “One night, somebody knocked my door. When I opened the door, he said ‘Kang Sung Mi, You are under arrest!’ I felt happiest because Kang was actually my neighbor.”

Fifth story

Kim Jong Il and Vladimir Putin are having a summit in Moscow.

During a break, both are so bored and decided to test whose bodyguard is more loyal. Putin calls his bodyguard Ivan first and tells him to open the window and throw himself off from the twentieth floor. Ivan cries “Your Excellency, why are you doing this to me? I have a wife and a kid.” Putin apologizes and lets Ivan go. Then Kim Jong Il calls his bodyguard Lee Myung-Man. “Lee, jump off from the window.” Without saying a word, Lee tries to leap from the window. Surprised, Putin grabs Lee to stop him from jumping and says “Are you crazy? You will die if you jump from here!” Lee struggles to jump, saying “Let me jump! I have a wife and a kid.”

Sixth story

In the Pyongyang Subway, two North Koreans are sitting next to each other. “How do you do, comrade?” “How do you do?” “Are you a Party member?” “No.” “Have you ever been one?” “No.” “Are any of your relatives member of the Party?” “Not one.” “Then get your feet off from mine, now.”

source: http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk00100&n...

charlieok• 15 years ago

Love the third and sixth

linbsd21• 15 years ago

North Korean Authorities suspect Fair Play.

swah2• 15 years ago

Please can we have two HNs.

zeruch• 15 years ago

The surface will probably be quiet for a bit, while the internal political machine of the DPRK roils. There are certainly a lot of possibilities (both good or bad) that can happen depending on who actually takes over control. Even if the regime collapsed non-violently, the ensuing chaotic human crisis would still be immense. My belief is that it will continue largely unchanged for the short to mid term.

kumarm• 15 years ago

2011 certainly is a disastrous year for Terrorists and Dictators around the world :)

joshuahedlund• 15 years ago

Saddam Hussein: dead at 69. Gaddafi: dead at 69. Kim Jong-Il: dead at 69.

How did Fidel Castro get out of this?

jarek• 15 years ago

Climate in Cuba is way nicer than any of the other places.

philwelch• 15 years ago

Also, he's not an isolated international pariah whose own people want to kill him, just a thorn in the side of the US.

polymatter• 15 years ago

investment in healthcare?

cynest• 15 years ago

If this continues it may become a club 27 analogue. Though 27 is perhaps a much less random number than 69 in that regard since all three of those dictators had different causes of demise.

diamondhead5• 15 years ago

I'm patiently waiting for the submissions about Angelina Jolie.

diamondhead5• 15 years ago

here it comes: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3368478

yahelc• 15 years ago

Is there an algorithmic reason this post isn't higher on the front page? It has more upvotes and is newer than everything but 1 or 2 things ahead of it. Here's a screenshot: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/397675/Screen%20Shot%202011-12-18%20...

ivankirigin• 15 years ago

I bet it has many flags

jokermatt999• 15 years ago

That sounds likely to me. Part of the guidelines say "No current events", which probably led to people flagging it. I'd rather not comment on the story's appropriateness, but I'm pretty sure that's why.

notatoad• 15 years ago

It was at the top about half an hour ago. And your post is 20 minutes old now. Something special must have happened in ten minutes.

N. Korean leader Kim Jong Il dies

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