FBI admits to using Carrier IQ data

http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/fbi-inadvertently-admits-to-using-carrier-iq-data-20111213/

by adeelarshad82 • 15 years ago

75 23 15 years ago

geek.com

revscat3• 15 years ago

And just like that, NFC was killed before it ever even had a chance to mature.

Also -- and it pains me to say this, because until now I have considered him to be a nutcase -- but RMS was right.[1]

[1] http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/031411-richard-stallma...

cq• 15 years ago

If you considered him a nutcase, you might want to reassess the methods which you use to determine if someone is a nutcase.

I'm not really surprised by this. The FBI is a horrible organization, just like most wings of the US government.

Karunamon• 15 years ago

Complete abstention from modern methods of communications because "zOMG GOVERNMENT" puts one squarely into nutcase territory.

And I'm not even going to get into his behavior and demands at talks. RMS is a well-intentioned nutcase, but a nutcase nonetheless.

codezero• 15 years ago

Be fair, he is a nutcase AND he was right :)

frankc• 15 years ago

This is being wildly overinterpreted. It could just as well mean that the FBI is investigating CarrierIQ for misconduct. You can't FOIA this stuff during an active investigation for obvious reasons. I'm not saying this is necessarrily what's going on, but we shouldn't be jumping to the worst conclusions either.

ajross3• 15 years ago

It could, but that seems awfully naive. Is there any precedent for the justice department pursuing a civil privacy case via secret (!) FBI investigation? As opposed to, you know, just filing a suit and getting the relevant documents during discovery?

evgen2• 15 years ago

What makes you think this is a civil privacy case? It is quite possible carrier iq was violating federal wiretapping statutes, which will put people into prison for years if convicted. In a criminal investigation you need to, you know, gather sufficient evidence and justification to get a search warrant so that you can dig into bits that are not out in public; a manual describing what the software actually does is one piece of data that would help in this case.

onemoreact• 15 years ago

The vast majority of investigations are 'secret' in that they don't give out any details in the middle of an investigation.

Just think about it for a second. If you have done something really bad and you know they are looking into you why not leave the country or destroy evidence etc? Granted, there are a lot of downsides to both of those but people are probably not thinking rationally in such situations.

JadeNB• 15 years ago

I'm with frankc (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3347998); much as I suspect that nefarious goings-on are, well, going on, this seems more like evidence of over-reaching reflexive secret-keeping than of the FBI using CIQ data. (That's not to say that I don't believe it's happening, just that I don't believe that the FBI was 'tricked' into revealing anything here that it didn't want to reveal.)

Is there anyone out there with more experience of FOIA requests who can indicate whether this response (which the article itself calls a 'canned denial') actually indicates anything substantive, or is just boilerplate?

jolie2• 15 years ago

I've been in touch with CIQ and have written about both sides of the story.

CIQ told me that if the FBI got CIQ's data, they got it from carriers, not from CIQ. It kinda makes sense, since law enforcement work with carriers all the freakin time anyhow.

Full statement is here: http://venturebeat.com/2011/12/13/carrier-iq-fbi-rebuttal/

revscat3• 15 years ago

While this might shift the blame, it does not in the least change the outrageousness of the facts.

jolie2• 15 years ago

That the FBI gets data about supposed criminals from mobile carriers? That they usually have something like a warrant or probable cause to do so?

I'm all about carrying a torch & pitchfork when it's necessary, but I find other government-sponsored BS (SOPA, for example) a bit more compelling & troublesome at the moment. From everything I've seen in corporate spy guides, it seems unlikely that the government is watching your every move if you're not doing something wrong or at least suspicious. It's not a perfect system, but it's not something to put Carrier IQ out of business for, either.

Kylekramer• 15 years ago

As much as it gins up page views, denial of access isn't proof of existence (you know once you are citing X-Files as your proof, you've gone off the deep end). I can easily see denying a FOI request on the grounds of "could reasonably be expected to interfere with law enforcement proceedings" as a simple rubber stamp way of avoiding to have go through the process of looking for the information that may not even exist. Not that it is less alarming, but I hate hazy conjecture boldly presented as fact.

privacyguru• 15 years ago

No, the FBI did NOT admit to using Carrier IQ data.

http://www.securityweek.com/fbi-carrier-iq-foia-denial-not-p...

FBI admits to using Carrier IQ data

Related Stories