FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes"

http://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2011/dec/12/fbi-carrier-iq-files-used-law-enforcement-purposes/

by morisy • 15 years ago

215 78 15 years ago

r00fus• 15 years ago

Why should the government run massive data centers to crawl your every move when they can get you to run a hidden app to do the pre-filtering for them (and give them keystroke/touch-level access on demand in realtime)

sev2• 15 years ago

Excellent, remove the fault from the corporations and give even more power. Whatever happened to warrants?

redrobot505011• 15 years ago

Where did the article indicate that Law Enforcement didn't need a warrant to access the Carrier IQ data?

sp332• 15 years ago

I remember a time when they had to get a warrant before logging your information. Now with Carrier ID and Google and Facebook, the information is already collected, and they only need a warrant to access the years and years of detailed historical information. It's quite a big difference.

sev2• 15 years ago

Carrier IQ is very much like wire tapping. Wire tapping requires a warrant[1]. What about warrant for Carrier IQ?

That was my point.

[1] Not sure, but I think it did at one point or still does. Maybe some bill or act made that void, not sure.

evgen2• 15 years ago

Gotta love the paranoid nutjobs jumping straight to "the FBI is using Carrier IQ to spy on us" when an equally likely explanation buried in paragraph three is that if the FBI is conducting an investigation of Carrier IQ for possible violation of federal wiretap laws then the same data would be withheld. Let's see now... Al Franken, who recently made some loud noises about Carrier IQ and sent a public letter to the company asking for information about what they are doing, sits on the Senate Judiciary committee. The committee that has direct oversight of the FBI would be? Anyone? Bueller?

ck2• 15 years ago

It's far more likely it was for the CIA since phones are exported with that code in place.

The warrantless domestic spying is just a bonus for them.

waitwhat2• 15 years ago

phones are exported with that code in place

They are? (I hadn't been following this that closely but...) My understanding was that the issue was American carriers customising the OEM software and selling that kit to their own users.

See, for example, "So far, all of the major British providers have denied using the tool on their handsets" -- http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/05/european-regulators-set-s...

morisy2• 15 years ago

Not quite sure it's "paranoid" to think the FBI is, in some cases, using Carrier IQ software to gather information given recent U.S. history. Also, since the request was specifically for manuals used to gather information using Carrier IQ, and not just for any information on Carrier IQ, when they say they have responsive documents to the request I would imagine it refers to manuals or guides in their possession.

evgen2• 15 years ago

If the FBI is conducting an investigation into possible criminal activity by Carrier IQ then the manuals and guides are direct evidence showing what the company intended the software to do, making it evidence in an ongoing investigation.

theorique• 15 years ago

Thank goodness. I was worried that they might be misused. I feel safe now.

Go to sleep, citizens. All is well. All is under control.

smokeyj• 15 years ago

A profile is being generated about you, slowly but surely. It starts out as a vague picture, but the more you communicate, the the more clearly you define yourself. It includes your political affiliations, interests you display online, who your friends are, your every movement, your sexual preferences, close secrets, and anything else that can be gathered about you. These profiles are stored in a government database that allow contractors to test threat-detection algorithms to identify potential threats to national security -- aka, status quo. These reports will be sent to the appropriate LEO to summon and indefinitely detain you. You will be sent to a secret prison. You will not have a court date. Get ready for the New America.

Edit - Yes, the hyperbole is strong in this one.

JanezStupar3• 15 years ago

And all I can think of is.

Holy Shit. Stallman was right.

Prescience is a dangerous gift for ones mental health. I like to think of RMS as driven mad by his vision not seeing vision because of being mad.

sounds• 15 years ago

While I do appreciate your statement in the larger literary context (great artists and prophets deemed insane), and I don't think RMS is justified in everything he does...

I reject your allusion to his insanity. Neurotic behavior is not the same as out-of-control psychotic.

rimantas2• 15 years ago

This has absolutely nothing to do with rms and his visions. Which are wrong.

felipemnoa• 15 years ago

>>Yes, the hyperbole is strong in this one.

Considering the link below I'm not so sure:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/12/indefinite-military...

pyre• 15 years ago

... And you can't 'escape' it. Eventually a lack of data on you will be suspicious in and of itself.

biff• 15 years ago

There's an easy way around that, though: speak, act, live and think in a manner that's patently inoffensive to anybody.

* I guess I'm being too subtle with my sarcasm, huh. Well, I'll be Larry Literal from now on.

vanishing• 15 years ago

Unless you have an AI living a low key, nonthreatening virtual life for you.

mindhunter• 15 years ago

> Get ready for the New World.

FTFY. I'm sure this is happening all over the world.

soundslikeneon2• 15 years ago

The most troubling part of this whole story is that Carrier IQ itself may be breaking Federal laws by logging keystrokes without getting consent from the user...and then the FBI uses that data in investigations. Wonderful.

redrobot505011• 15 years ago

It acts as a keylogger on some android phones, when Carrier IQ is put into a "debug state". The researcher apparently triggered that by accident without knowing. It's not the default log level. Carrier IQ is likely benign and this whole issue seems to be bad tech journalism and sensationalism.

Buttle• 15 years ago

I hope they don't confuse me for suspected terrorist A.H. Tuttle.

ChuckMcM• 15 years ago

It is entirely possible that the FBI is investigating Carrier IQ at the request of the Senate and has documents about what they have found regarding how Carrier IQ uses its data. Those documents would be part of an 'ongoing investigation.'

Still I appreciate the attempt at a FOIA dump.

VladRussian2• 15 years ago

>These reports will be sent to the appropriate LEO to summon and indefinitely detain you. You will be sent to a secret prison.

it may be not the worst what could happen to one. Reading about Kennedy/Oswald/Ruby, i've been wondering how much of a precisely targetted influence one is needed to be made behaving in a specific way. How much of our actions are really "ours"?

awakeasleep• 15 years ago

It's a bit scary how quickly our brains stop thinking when these topics come up..

If you have infinite knowledge/power over someone, locking them in jail is about the least profitable or fun thing you can do.

I think most of us come from a sort of middle class, well behaved background that prevents us from conceptualizing what it means to be corrupted by power.

bitops• 15 years ago

> A profile is being generated about you, slowly but surely.

In days of old, I would have agreed, but things like Facebook make me question the whole "sinister" aspect of the central database.

Have you noticed how, if the government is the one collecting data, then it's evil? But, give a person the opportunity to share all kinds of private information about themselves on the Internet, they'll do it very quickly and willingly?

Or, we used to worry about those secret chips being implanted in us that could be used to track our location. Well, I don't know about you, but I sure love my location-aware apps that constantly broadcast my location. Cause, of course everyone should where I am all the time! </sarcasm>

If it's the government collecting data, then it's surveillance and evil. But if it's just egocentric self-promotion, it's all good.

We live in a world of our own creation. There is no conspiracy but the one we empower others to create.

And yes, I'm going heavy on the hyperbole here as well, but I'm really sort of sick of people whining and complaining about this stuff all the time. But at the same time, they don't want to pay the very real costs associated with privacy, freedom and security.

Adolph_Jobs• 15 years ago

The point of most legislation is that people can't always protect themselves. Whether it's from other people, or from large organisations with great power, such as international corporations or the government. Strict privacy laws in more leftist places outside the US protect people from this sort of thing.

The fact is, people don't actually know with whom they're sharing the personal information. They think it's just their friends who can see their status updates / employer / friend network / political affiliation / sexuality. If the CIA called them up and asked them completely straightforwardly to volunteer that information for a national database I'm sure most would immediately refuse outright.

drunkenmasta• 15 years ago

Not only law enforcement, but general intelligence and especially marketers and advertisers. They will soon know you better than you know yourself http://danielmillsap.com/blog/technology-news/carrier-iq-the...

fluidcruft• 15 years ago

It's a shame really that we don't have access to the same data for self-discovery. Imagine if everyone had their own data and people could communicate with algorithms. Greenpeace could have a little thing that you run on your data to get tips for improving your shopping habits, etc. Unions could have a way to help you avoid bad products. Or your phone could learn when you need a nudge one way or the other to improve your health.

kstenerud2• 15 years ago

Which is why it's nice to be in full control of the software/hardware stack you use. Walled gardens may look nice and be convenient in the present, and may even give the illusion of security, but in the end they're inevitably abused.

redrobot505011• 15 years ago

However, the only documented case of the abuse is on the "most open" hardware stack. Jailbreakers saw no keylogging on the iPhone. (In fact, it's disabled by default on the iPhone).

soundslikeneon2• 15 years ago

I'm not sure if you meant for this particular interpretation or not, but the way you invoke "walled garden" makes it sound a lot like you are targeting iOS specifically. This couldn't be further from the truth.

Based on my own reading. Carrier IQ is installed on many Android-based phones, including those from AT&T, Sprint and T-Mobile networks. Apple, HTC and Samsung have all confirmed that Carrier IQ is on their phones. HOWEVER, Apple has also announced that it has stopped supporting CIQ as of iOS 5, and will completely scrub the software from later releases.

So no, this has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not your phone exists in a closed ecosystem. The problem is that companies are incentivized to get away with as much of this kind of information collection as it possibly can. And just because I have to jailbreak my iPhone if I want to install unvetted software, doesn't mean Apple is thumbing their noses at legitimate customer complaints and concerns.

redrobot505011• 15 years ago

Carrier IQ is in iOS 5. It is, however, disabled by default. It is also buried in the second or third level down in Preferences, so its very unlikely a user will enable it by accident -- and will probably only do so upon the instruction of an Apple Store Support Rep.

kstenerud2• 15 years ago

I'm invoking "walled garden", speaking of closed, controlled hardware environments in general, whether that be Apple or phone carriers or laptop manufacturers or the like. Once the controllers of that environment gain power, the human tendency to abuse and extend that power is only a matter of time.

The only way to ensure that you can trust the hardware and software you use is if it is 100% transparent. And while that is not always possible, the ability to control what runs on your own hardware goes a long way towards mitigating the risk of a betrayed trust.

16s• 15 years ago

A play on the Ben Franklin quote about giving-up freedom for security:

Those Who Sacrifice The Right To Privacy For Convenience Deserve Neither.

metachris2• 15 years ago

This unfolding Carrier IQ scandal is a really huge deal in my opinion. It just shows how our phones are used by both companies and law enforcement to track us, and that probably for a decade with software like this.

Anybody knows if there is a website that tracks this incident, affected phones, related news, ...?

redrobot505011• 15 years ago

Wait, you're just figuring out now that anything that travels through a cell phone network could be monitored?

metachris2• 15 years ago

A lot of people wonder whether this is tracking theories are for real. Now at least one very popular way of how its currently being done is exposed.

kiloaper• 15 years ago

There's a big difference between carriers knowing where you are and ad companies/law enforcement knowing without a warrant.

lurkinggrue• 15 years ago

I am shocked! SHOCKED!

...well not THAT shocked.

eliasmacpherson• 15 years ago

Interesting excerpt from CarrierIQ's apology to Eckhart, which exists thanks to the EFF:

We would like to take this opportunity to reiterate the functionality of Carrier IQ’s software, what it does not do and what it does:

Does not record your keystrokes.

Does not provide tracking tools.

Does not inspect or report on the content of your communications, such as the content of emails and SMSs.

Does not provide real-time data reporting to any customer.

Finally, we do not sell Carrier IQ data to third parties.

http://www.carrieriq.com/company/PR.EckhartStatement.pdf

waqf3• 15 years ago

I notice that they don't say that they don't provide Carrier IQ data to third parties, just that they don't sell it.

mariuolo• 15 years ago

Anyone shocked?

FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes"

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