SpaceX launches Starlink ‘flat high-performance’ dish for moving vehicles

https://teslanorth.com/2022/10/25/spacex-launches-starlink-flat-high-performance-dish-for-internet-in-moving-vehicles/

by awoodbeck • 4 years ago

105 47 4 years ago

I was surprised to see this, because I thought a previous FCC regulatory decision limited Starlink terminals to being operational only when stationary.

Some Googling revealed that the FCC reversed this in June of 2022.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/30/23190463/spacex-starlink-...

bpodgursky• 4 years ago

I think SpaceX simply had never previously asked the FCC to authorize it. Not really a reversal of any particular opinionated stance.

busymom02• 4 years ago

What was the reasoning for FCC's original decision? Why would they try to stop it?

margalabargala2• 4 years ago

The original decision was this:

SpaceX: "Hey FCC, can we get permitted for stationary satellite dishes?"

FCC: "Yes."

The new decision:

SpaceX: "Hey FCC, can we also get permitted for moving dishes?"

FCC: "Yes."

The FCC didn't try to stop anything, they just weren't asked about moving dishes the first time.

grecy2• 4 years ago

A friend has regular "RV" starlink, and uses it all the time in motion strapped on top of his spare tire on the rear tailgate of his SUV. It works flawlessly.... except he's done a TON of off road driving on bad corrugations, which eventually killed it - I guess the internal motors are not designed for those kind of vibrations.

SpaceX sent him a new dish free of charge.

busymom02• 4 years ago

What type of warranty does the dish come with? Also, do they have some mechanism to detect if it was used "incorrectly" similar to how old iPhones used to have a color changing strip inside to detect water damage?

grecy2• 4 years ago

I have no idea, but he said they were super easy about it - no worries, just send the old one in and we'll send you a new one, free.

We both figured it's product testing, and they didn't seem put out at all.

photochemsyn• 4 years ago

This press release seems pretty light on information. This could be a phased array antenna according to this review (which seems to be focused on airplane-mounted devices):

https://www.bcsatellite.net/blog/flat-panel-antennas-state-o...

"Currently the most popular alternative to Gimbal antennas are Phased Array Antenna flat panel antennas, which are composed of many radiating elements that can be thought of as numerous, tiny, fixed antennas. Each one has a phase shifter which forms beams by shifting the phase of the signal emitted from each of the radiating elements (tiny antennas). This provides a constructive/destructive interference which may be used to steer the beam(s) in a particular direction. This entire process is all electric, so the beam direction can be controlled and pointed instantaneously in any direction. It is able to track the movement of a satellite in the sky, regardless of the movement of the car, boat, airplane, or train."

HyperSane4• 4 years ago

The current Starlink antenna is phased-array.

nynx2• 4 years ago

Yes, all starlink user terminals are phased arrays.

p5a0u9l2• 4 years ago

The flat panel is a phased array dead give away. The performance and cost advantages of digital beamforming are such that you can pretty much assume any high tech antenna is a multi channel array.

noncoml3• 4 years ago

My experience with Starlink is that it kind of works(I get 50-100Mb bandwidth) but I have multiple(as in 10s) sub-second interruptions every hour.

Dishy view is completely unobstructed. And weather is clear most of the time in California.

As much as I hate Comcast, if 100Mb Comcast was available in my area I would trade it in a heartbeat.

Ninjinka• 4 years ago

if 100Mb Comcast was available in my area I would trade it in a heartbeat

Um...duh. Starlink isn't meant to replace your internet where typical options are available. It's meant to give something where there was nothing, or replace much worse satellite internet options.

noncoml3• 4 years ago

That’s my experience, yes. I wonder if there are enough such people to make Starlink profitable.

nynx2• 4 years ago

Have you raised that with starlink support?

chrisco255• 4 years ago

I get these 0.5s and 0.7s drops as well (maybe 10-20 per hour), in Texas. To be honest, I don't even notice the sub-second drops.

noncoml3• 4 years ago

I only notice them during ssh sessions or voip/zoom calls.

They don’t affect web browsing or streaming movies

bloudermilk• 4 years ago

I’ve experienced these pauses as well but they’ve only been problematic on real time video calls in practice. I wouldn’t trade my fiber for full time Starlink but I would definitely choose it over any Comcast offering (for personal use)

colechristensen• 4 years ago

Horizon to horizon in all directions?

ecpottinger• 4 years ago

Wait until you get the strange billing from ComCast first.

My mom had it in Florida and I found she had all sorts of extra charges for items and services she never had. There is a reason ComCast has a bad rep.

jstarfish• 4 years ago

There's also a reason every terrestrial ISP has bandwidth caps.

"Unlimited" satellite bandwidth is not sustainable, and once the business model changes to acknowledge that, Starlink will join the ranks.

mlindner• 4 years ago

As much as I hate Comcast, if 100Mb Comcast was available in my area I would trade it in a heartbeat.

And that's expected. Elon Musk has publicly stated before that Starlink has no plans for competing with Comcast.

lebski88• 4 years ago

I use starlink here in the UK. I don't get any drops and I spend probably around 4 hours a day on video calls. I've heard people say it can be regional though.

sidcool• 4 years ago

A tangential comment. I opened the page on a non ad blocked browser and my eyes burnt. I am OK with ads but this is next level intrusive.

visarga• 4 years ago

You made me try and now I regret it. How could they imagine anyone would want to read their page stuffed with all that garbage is beyond me.

llsf2• 4 years ago

Is it going to end up in Tesla truck and cars ? Tesla is building an army of connected robots on wheels.

somedude895• 4 years ago

Tesla vehicles and in fact most of today's cars and trucks have mobile connectivity, so the army of connected robots on wheels is already a thing.

llsf2• 4 years ago

Not sure if the current fleet talk much. With ubiquitous connectivity, maybe we could have all those vehicles talking to each other to act collectively.

majke• 4 years ago

(a) is it the same phased array antenna as dishy v2?

(b) is power usage improved? at 90 Watts dishy v2 is not perfect for an RV.

(c) dishy v2 has pretty slow startup time. It might be less than perfect if that thing required 10 minutes of unobstructed view to bootstrap.

I have mixed experiences with dishyv2 tech. I've had situations when it was flawless with half-obstructed view. I've had moments when it had hiccups without any obstructions.

Anyway, very interesting. Obviously this is a big deal for many applications.

Already__Taken• 4 years ago

There's not really an issue with power on moving vehicles except sail boats.

SigmundA• 4 years ago

It is an issue when your parked off grid and run off battery, 90w is significant. My 5G router with wifi 6 pulls under 10w direct 12v DC. It looks like the flat dish is actually 110-150w and requires AC power, so not great for off grid usage as inverter losses will add another 10-20w on top.

treelovinhippie• 4 years ago

The majority of RV/vanlifers do not need internet in motion, they just want a regular static 12V dish that can be mounted fixed and flush to the roof/racks like any solar panel.

$2500 for such a dish is the wrong target market. The only customer that needs internet in motion are things like boats, planes, trains and buses.

bryanlarsen• 4 years ago

Normal dishy works fine in motion so while it would be nice to have a lower priced option more suitable for mounting that doesn't work while in motion, such a distinction would be software only, and that always feels scummy.

How would you feel if you paid $700 for a vehicle mountable dish and then had the option to pay $2000 to "upgrade" it to allow to use it while it was in motion?

That's the sort of thing that really bothers some people. Hacker News celebrated when New Jersey proposed banning that sort of thing in cars.

p5a0u9l2• 4 years ago

Anybody know what RF frequency it operates on? Would have impact on FCC rules. I'm guessing 24GHz or thereabouts based on size.

SpaceX launches Starlink ‘flat high-performance’ dish for moving vehicles

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