Should frequent flyers pay for the decarbonization of the air industry?

https://www.footprintcoalition.com/post/should-a-frequent-flyers-pay-for-the-decarbonization-of-the-air-industry

by jelliclesfarm • 4 years ago

30 21 4 years ago

Complex partnerships, mostly funded through leverage, with credit card companies and corporate accounts have been subsidizing the airline industry for decades; not to mention government bailouts.

The airline industry needs to stand on its own or fall. That will help solve the carbon problem they have.

ggm3• 4 years ago

I sort of agree, but I think this is strictly orthogonal to the underlying problem . Achieving carbon reduction by removing state subsidies doesn't tackle the problem first class, it achieves it as a second-order effect.

ianai2• 4 years ago

So outlaw planes?

Ok not literally but I do wonder how scaled back they could be before affecting day to day.

prottog• 4 years ago

The airline industry needs to stand on its own or fall.

The airline industry probably stands next to banking as one of the industries with the highest amount of state interference. Looking at this list[0], there's probably more passenger-miles flown on airlines owned solely or majority by a government than not.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government-owned_airli...

nocoiner• 4 years ago

I feel like very little of this comment makes sense?

So airlines have debt? What enterprise doesn’t?

And their cash flow is provided by customers using credit cards? Again, just like every consumer facing business. What are the airlines supposed to do differently?

I can’t figured out your proposed solution, unless it is carbon taxes, which yes, would work quite neatly to price externalities in the airline industry (as well as every other industry).

londgine• 4 years ago

People who fly 1,000 times more than average only use 1,000 times more carbon. If jet fuel was taxed more then frequent flyers would pay that tax 1,000 times more often. Luckily this is already the case.

Private jets on the other hand, are sometimes exempt. https://bitluxtravel.com/eu-proposes-to-exempt-private-jets-...

nickcw• 4 years ago

From the linked article

Under current legislation, across Europe fuel used for aviation is largely tax-exempt, with a small exemption for low-altitude recreational aircrafts. This has long allowed air freight companies, commercial airlines and private jet operators to operate with a free pass regarding taxation.

Which implies, in Europe at least, there is no tax on jet fuel currently.

Am4TIfIsER0ppos• 4 years ago

exempt, with a small exemption

I've never seen a double negative in this form before.

ncmncm2• 4 years ago

Decarbonizing aviation will probably be achieved via conversion to using liquified hydrogen ("LH2") fuel.

It is not clear whether existing airframes can be retrofitted to burn hydrogen. There is not room in the wings for LH2 fuel because, despite its extreme mass-energy density, it takes up much more space. Carrying it inboard on passenger flights might be seen as a safety hazard. Most likely, LH2 would be carried in nacelles slung under the wings alongside the engines.

New airframes may use fuel cells to drive electric turbines in preference to burning H2 the ordinary way.

Once LH2-fueled craft enter a route, kerosene craft will be unable to compete there, because the lighter fuel load allows for more paying cargo in its place.

Major airports will electrolyse H2 from water on-site, and bank LH2 in underground tanks. A big airport will have huge solar and wind farms around it, feeding in power for that. They will represent a very substantial part of each nation's generating capacity, and the LH2 much of its storage.

In the nearer term, there will be a massive demand for synthetic kerosene for the current fleet.

DuskStar2• 4 years ago

I think that the business case for hydrogen over synthetic kerosene is slim to non-existent.

ncmncm2• 4 years ago

You will come around.

engineer_222• 4 years ago

Why? Please elaborate

yellowapple• 4 years ago

Are kerosene combustion emissions as clean as those of hydrogen combustion?

perihelions• 4 years ago

Mass surveillance is a boiling frog scenario. Just a few decades ago, it'd have been absurd to suggest this type of regulation, because no one collected authoritative data pinning individuals to how they used airplanes. Airline tickets were even transferrable.

stuaxo• 4 years ago

Aren't "air miles" basically this ?

Should frequent flyers pay for the decarbonization of the air industry?

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