Dojo Toolkit 1.7 Released.

http://dojotoolkit.org/blog/dojo-1-7-released

by tizoc • 15 years ago

42 33 15 years ago

DrCatbox3• 15 years ago

And not a single fuck was given.

Does anyone actually think dojo has a future compared to the power that jquery gives to make your own "widgets" but far simpler than dojo?

The simplest tutorials in the dojo documentation put html tags in the JavaScript code. Generating them like strings. It reminds me of the days when people would generate html (and javascript, oh god) using Java.

Dojo is too big, too complicated and bloated. It should be split up/down in all its major components.

shuzchen• 15 years ago

It's true, the docs aren't exactly good (and there are like, 3 versions of it floating around - which one to reference?).

But it doesn't sound like you've actually used Dojo. It's neither big, complicated or bloated. Things ARE modularized, and the core has a lot of bits that are useful outside a browser environment. If you look at jQuery, the whole thing targets being run in a browser. Dojo base has a lot of language utilities that are helpful - say if you're using it in node.

DrCatbox3• 15 years ago

Ive used it against my wish, but it may be also because of inexperience with it which makes me judge so badly. I could have done what I was doing in jQuery far more faster and effecient, and the resulting code would have been easier to maintain for many other developers. Very few know dojo.

Also the idea of "dojoAttachPoint" as an attribute on basically any tag is questionable. If I recall only the latest html spec allows that, but dojo used it even before.

foca• 15 years ago

When was it that you used it? I haven't used it lately, and when I did I felt the same as you, but for what I've seen Dojo is no longer the "kitchen sink" it used to be. It's small, VERY modular, and has a lot of utilities and interesting things.

Not that jQuery doesn't have any of these. But jQuery was thought out as a DOM manipulation library and then people started sticking a ton of things on top of it.

Dojo is thought out as a modular toolkit, where DOM manipulation is just one of the libraries it includes.

drewda• 15 years ago

Dojo gets a lot of use in the corporate world because it's so complete, particularly in terms of GUI widgets.

I always use jQuery myself, but I'm still not satisfied with any of the jQuery grid components, for example. It's disappointing.

dylanks24• 15 years ago

You might be interested in the dgrid project (see slides at http://www.slideshare.net/sitepen/dgrid-next-generation-dojo... and blog post at http://www.sitepen.com/blog/2011/10/26/introducing-the-next-... ). It's a new module, and one of the interesting features is support for the jQuery ThemeRoller classes. It's pretty lightweight, and could be used with jQuery with something like RequireJS, etc.

tizoc2• 15 years ago

Dojo is extremely modular (unlike jQuery which is has a pretty big monolithic core and overloads $ for almost everything).

If what you have to do is manipulate the DOM and do XMLHttpRequests, then jQuery is more than good enough, otherwise Dojo has a lot to offer.

Some features from Dojo which are not about DOM manipulation or XMLHttpRequests that I use a lot:

- AMD-style modules (you can have this with jQuery, but Dojo is built with AMD from the ground up) http://livedocs.dojotoolkit.org/loader/amd

- the build system http://livedocs.dojotoolkit.org/build/index

- object stores http://livedocs.dojotoolkit.org/dojo/index#store-dojo-store

- deferreds (jQuery has these now) http://livedocs.dojotoolkit.org/dojo/Deferred

- templated widget definitions http://livedocs.dojotoolkit.org/dijit/_TemplatedMixin

- publish/subscribe http://livedocs.dojotoolkit.org/dojo/publish

- observable attributes http://livedocs.dojotoolkit.org/dojo/Stateful

This doesn't mean that you should be using it, just use what feels better for you. For some people (like me), Dojo is what feels better.

Meai• 15 years ago

That modularity is nice in theory, but Dojo gives me 170kb of compressed javascript simply for selecting the fileuploader widget. I saw the same for Google Closure Library by the way - not saying I could write an all purpose js library which would score better.

firemanx• 15 years ago

While I'd agree that the documentation could really use an overhaul, once you figure out what the "modern" way to use it is - I've found it to be none of the things which you describe it. I recently implemented an application on the 1.6 version of Dojo, and found it pretty easy to set things up using an MVC pattern which, while I could have implemented myself in JQuery, would have taken longer and wouldn't have been built to the standard Dojo expects. Here are a few things I like about it:

* It has a layout manager, so I can build fluid UIs that are divided up into various content panes that react via the MVC model. I tried a few different layout manager options out there under JQuery, and none of them integrated well with other libs I wanted to use.

* It has an event bus built in, which means I can decouple components but allow them to communicate asynchronously.

* It has a wide range of components that I can drop in, rather than writing myself.

* It's component model is actually kind of slick. You can define a view file, which is just some specially marked up HTML, and then a backing code file for it, which acts as the controller / event manager for the file. You can then define classes at the page level that act as controllers to wire up all of your individual components. No generation via strings.

* It has a built in dependency mechanism that dynamically loads only the components you need for a given page. It also has a build system that lets you package up only the components your application actually uses.

Sure, I could hunt around and try and duct-tape each of these pieces together individually with JQuery, but for my use cases, the "batteries included" model worked really, really well.

hughw3• 15 years ago

Yes, there is seemingly a lot of documentation, each part of which describing about 80% of what you need to know. They've put a lot of effort into it, I think, yet it needs more effort. Since I haven't contributed to that effort, I can't complain. My advice: just read the source code. I wish you could just read the docs and understand the semantics of every api, but I finally realized that, if I cannot google the answer to my question in 15 seconds, just open the source code, which is excellently documented (internally), and very consistent in using patterns.

dmethvin• 15 years ago

> Does anyone actually think dojo has a future compared to the power that jquery gives to make your own "widgets" but far simpler than dojo?

It really depends on what you're trying to do, I suspect. I'm on the jQuery core team and it's nice to have a lot of people building off our work.

> The simplest tutorials in the dojo documentation put html tags in the JavaScript code. Generating them like strings.

Yes, simple documentation examples often have HTML in them, the jQuery docs do it too at times. It's a lot harder to build real examples without all the extra stuff getting in the way of the simple concept you're trying to demonstrate.

Go into your browser's debugger and look at how many apps (including jQuery-based ones) are written. They use MVC frameworks but then create big chunks of HTML in JavaScript to generate the views rather than using templates. Here's one for example, from a very large newspaper site: http://i.imgur.com/a4R6I.png

Are you saying that jQuery is to blame for this app using embedded HTML, since we sometimes use it in our demonstrations for the docs?

> Dojo is too big, too complicated and bloated. It should be split up/down in all its major components.

Waitaminit, I thought jQuery was too complicated and bloated, at least that's what several people here were telling me when I posted the announcement here about jQuery 1.7 being released.

Most likely a big app needs darn near every byte of the base library it includes. Go over and look at the Mootools configurable download builder and tell me which of those checkboxes you could leave empty on a big project. Many of these big apps are more than half a megabyte of minified code. All of jQuery is about 92KB and Dojo is 100KB. I have seen the other 400+KB, and it is the problem.

Just like programming languages, libraries can be used improperly. Don't blame the library for the people who misuse it.

ColdAsIce3• 15 years ago

Most apps I worked on required only querying and events. Animations can be done with css3, but if we wherent working with html5 then simple fadein/out animations are also required.

Specifically dojo has this useless dijit widget collection. For any serious web app I doubt you would find dijit suitable to exactly your needs. Which means you have to develop your own using the query/animation/events api.

snowwindwaves• 15 years ago

An app I use is still on dojo 0.4 because they rewrote the tree widget after 0.6 and the new implementation was missing features we depended on, I think it was different icons for leafs. Maybe time for an update now

vyrotek3• 15 years ago

Fantastic! I'm literally working right now on a large application that uses Dojo 1.6 extensively. I must say that I'm overall impressed with the framework. The selection and flexibility of the widgets is great. I've done plenty of jQuery UI in the past and I'm honestly done with it until they get some consistency issues resolved. Dojo definitely fills a need.

But, I wish Dojo was still a bit more straightforward to package up the various modules/widgets our project is using into a single .js file. For now the dynamic parsing with dojo.require works fine. But as the project grows it won't cut it anymore.

Congrats to the team :) (PS. When can we expect it to be available through the Googel CDN?)

hughw3• 15 years ago

Havre you looked into the dojo build system? That's how you make your single minified js file. Pretty straightforward, I think? http://dojotoolkit.org/reference-guide/build/

vyrotek3• 15 years ago

Yep, but sadly I've made a few attempts and failed miserably.

Perhaps I'm too spoiled by jQuery UI Builder. I'd much rather prefer something like this where I can just pick the widgets I know I'm using: http://jqueryui.com/download

ufo3• 15 years ago

Pretty starightfoward until you hit a hard-to-google for problem. Yesterday my build process was crashing because I used Windows backslashes in a command line argument instead of the Unix slashes that it expected :(

Dojo Toolkit 1.7 Released.

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