Looking for HTML5 Nirvana

http://www.copperykeenclaws.com/looking-for-html5-nirvana/

by tborthwick • 15 years ago

31 23 15 years ago

copperykeenclaws.com

CWIZO• 15 years ago

He should really include a link to a "demo", so we can see what exactly he is doing there.

AshleysBrain• 15 years ago

Agreed, it might not be standards compliant HTML in which case it's not the browser's fault.

Maci2• 15 years ago

Why does this get upvoted ?

If anything, all the author expresses is the disappointment of his own expectations while not adding anything constructive.

Looking at the screenshots what he wants to achieve is perfectly doable cross browser but as per the author admission he's not much of a front-end guy.

Shots point to here > http://bigmath.herokuapp.com/ which is offline.

lwhi3• 15 years ago

The first three images in the screenshots work as a good three panel joke.

But yep, I agree - the author shouldn't necessarily try to start a debate without offering specific use cases and failures. Far too much conjecture IMO.

paisible• 15 years ago

Even more important : HOW does this get to the first two results in the first place, with only 3 comments and 20 points ? Is it enough for 20 of the OP's friends to upvote a story for it to get to the top ? Not hating, just curious to know.

Meai• 15 years ago

That's his point..if someone can't write and position two characters of text and have it be cross platform easily, the HTML platform itself has failed.

I had a similar thought like the author recently. Flash could have been awesome with a smaller runtime, 3D sooner, progressive rendering of content (text and images getting loaded in like in the browser instead of loading bars) Who would still use HTML? There would be no upside at all, Flash has always had better tools.

watty2• 15 years ago

He has a great point if it's legit. Without source we have no idea what's going on or if he even has valid HTML to begin with.

I have no problems centering content horizontally cross browser (which he complains about).

daleharvey• 15 years ago

Despite being one of the first true ubiquitous computing platforms, becoming the main format of communication for the planet, HTML(s/the web) failed because someone couldnt read a CSS tutorial?

The authors example is terrible, that is an easy layout to do crossbrowser, HTML and CSS do have massive deficiencies in easily creating layouts, but so do most GUI toolkits, and compared to the other factors involved in the success of the web, fiddling around with css a little longer is a price well worth paying, for the majority at least

Maci2• 15 years ago

Author's big numbers display, correct in IE 6.0+ and anything modern.

Old IE fixes a slight dirty, BUT can't get more basic HTML / CSS then this.

http://pastebin.com/TvPnFzrj

(Train delayed, Killing Time, Rainbows, etc.)

HTH Author.

bgarbiak3• 15 years ago

Who would still use HTML? There would be no upside at all, Flash has always had better tools.

No upside at all? Open standards, semantic code, SEO optimization, separation of presentation and content, ability to look into the source code, ability to alter the content and/or visuals by user, better printing support, userscripts, ad blocking,... Just to mention a few.

Anyway, no matter how good Flash could have become it would always be only a plug-in. A third-party injection, not an integral part of the web - and as such it always was doomed in the long term perspective. Relaying on plugins is like - excuse an over-the-top metaphor - having nitro system in a family car. It's exciting for a while, but nowhere near an experience of having a real supercar. HTML5, in it's current state, is not yet a Ferrari but it has way bigger chance to become one than Flash (or Silverlight, or anything) ever had.

tomlin3• 15 years ago

People should try to understand that the need for the capabilities of Flash and Flash itself are being lopped together in a single, partisan viewpoint. Regretfully.

There is a need for crazy, highly interactive studio/movie sites, webcam support on the web, cross-browser reliability, fast drawing for animation and games, cross-browser 3D, audio API. Saying that these features will come one day is not an answer. "You don't need those features because..." is also not an answer. The OP's points are no more constructive that those who have answers like these against Flash.

Criticizing HTML5 means you are pro-Flash. Which means you are wrong and all of your points are invalid. Even if you're not pro-Flash.

lwhi3• 15 years ago

Huh? I would have thought that criticising HTML5 and providing valid reasoning means you think negatively about HTML5.

The problem is, the author hasn't backed up anything. There's no real valid criticism other than conjecture.

tzury• 15 years ago

Dear Author ( Author == OP in this case),

Can you please share markup/css you were using?

tborthwick3• 15 years ago

I put the site back online at http://bigmath.herokuapp.com/.

rplnt• 15 years ago

> does HTML5 support true cross-browser compatibility?

Well, as the HTML5 specification is not complete yet... the answer is quite obvious: No.

tborthwick3• 15 years ago

I agree I should have left a demo up- I had decided I should just start over so I took some screenshots for reference then scraped it. Later as an after-thought, I decided to write it up. I didn't really expect this much interest- I'll try to get it back up tonight.

The exercise was a little more than straight-up horizontal centering. It was to take two numbers randomly generated with possibly different number of digits, center them together along with an operator as a block, but right-align the text within. Also a text input field was put below. The line above the input field is just a simple border.

For reference, the CSS tutorial I looked at was http://www.noobcube.com/tutorials/html-css/horizontal-and-ve..., but I didn't add the IE elements because I thought it was only necessary for IE 6 and 7, not 9.

So the horizonal alignment problem in IE is probably because I used display:block. But why don't the numbers line up the same in chrome and firefox? What's up with the field border being all over the place? My point is not that I know html and css well, which I clearly don't, or that this stuff is impossible. It's that even with the latest browsers and techniques, it's still easy to get very different displays. I just didn't expect that, given the huge hype surrounding html5 and css3.

bgarbiak3• 15 years ago

The tutorial you've mentioned overcomplicate things a bit and uses tables for layout, which is a total no-go. However, even as a regular HTML5 defender I have to admit centering stuff in HTML/CSS in not exactly a trivial task. It's not very tough either, just not something that most of the 'newcomers' could solve in a minute. You can look up my solution here: http://garbiak.com/demos/hn/

Without seeing your code it's hard to tell what exactly gone wrong, however such huge level of browser inconsistency is indeed worrisome. Never believed HTML5 would solve these kind of issues completely but the differences shouldn't be that huge.

tborthwick3• 15 years ago

The site is back online at http://bigmath.herokuapp.com/.

Looking for HTML5 Nirvana

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