Ask HN: Does anyone here not own a phone?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32485276

43 55 4 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

For the last few years I've slowly been weaning myself off of my phone and social media. I've found that I like not having apps to entertain me every second of the day -- it's nice to be bored while waiting for someone, or to not check my phone in awkward social situations.

Does anyone live without a smartphone? What does that look like? Do you feel isolated from your friends/family, or do you have some other more traditional way of keeping contact? Do you think it's beneficial to you?

LinuxBender3• 4 years ago

I've never owned a smart-phone. Since I left the wireless industry I've always had a disposable pre-paid flip-phone that is not in my name. I do not feel isolated. I talk to the neighbors all the time and work with them on my homestead. If I needed more social interaction I would join one of the local churches despite not being religious. That would keep my social circles local. If I need to talk to family I radio them. FRS/CB

If the internet went too far sideways I could have a chat server and forum for local folks as most folks here are on the same fiber/dsl network. I already have some servers that are restricted to the CIDR blocks of my provider.

BerislavLopac2• 4 years ago

Leroy Jethro Gibbs, is that you?

LinuxBender3• 4 years ago

At first I thought you were kidding. I had to look up this person had never watched NCIS and we do have some eerie resemblances. I served in the same time-frame as the fictional character and have some of the same background, though different branch. Suffered the same young tragedy except I had no other family at the time. Very similar training. That show has 19 seasons. Why was it so popular? I've only seen the meme from the dueling-hackers from that show. [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qgehH3kEQ

Simon_O_Rourke• 4 years ago

I've considered it, just to angry up the IT security folks who insist on using employee's personal devices as a cheap MFA mechanism.

null0ranje• 4 years ago

I feel like the lack of an MFA alternative is what keeps me from dumping my smartphone entirely.

kyrofa3• 4 years ago

I haven't actually struggled much, here. I use hardware security (yubikeys) for everything that I can, and everything I can't generally uses TOTP, where I can use keepassxc. The one that has been annoying is a client who insists on using Duo, but even they support literally automatically calling me and having me press "1" to authorize myself.

WCSTombs2• 4 years ago

- All 2FA I've needed so far works with any cell phone. They just text a random code to my flip phone.

- I'm far out of my depth here, but aren't there hardware tokens for this purpose?

baumschubser• 4 years ago

Couple of years ago I hacked together a simple Java app that should work on older dumb-phones to get TOTP/HOTP codes. https://github.com/baumschubser/hotpants

nickjj• 4 years ago

Up until last year I had no smartphone and I only got one because work required it for on-call notifications. Now I use it for nothing except that and a camera (it's a personal device that I ended up purchasing).

I never felt disconnected, family knows to email me and that if they send me a picture over text it comes up as a 1 inch square that I couldn't see.

What's your definition of an awkward social situation? For me I don't consider anything I routinely do as awkward. For example, standing on line waiting for a cashier to be free is normal behavior. I just stand there looking at my surroundings.

zzo38computer• 4 years ago

I do not have a cell phone. I do have a land line telephone though, and also email. I can also write a letter if it is necessary (e.g. if the email and telephone do not work).

jollyllama• 4 years ago

I did for a few years; I think it was beneficial. Give it a try, you can better cultivate your internal experience and your external presence. I got a new job and wanted to stick the landing so I am using a smartphone again now; it definitely takes some effort not to get addicted.

You do get a lot of PITA situations where your bank, some venue, or something else expects you to use one. You learn to either ask the employees there for more help in these situations and just avoid services that don't accomodate.

I don't really travel a lot outside of my state.

kyrofa3• 4 years ago

Yes, I got rid of my smartphone a few years ago. Personally, my challenge wasn't so much social media, but that I simply couldn't handle being so connected. Ultimately, I have a self-discipline problem, and I know it. I shattered my own concentration, attention span, and memory, and I _still_ feel like I'm slowly putting myself back together.

There are certainly downsides, I wrote about it a bit[1], but for me, the upsides are worth it all. Not everyone suffers from the same issues, of course, but I've been pleased at the changes in myself and my family.

[1] https://kyrofa.com/posts/my-phone-isn-t-as-smart-as-yours/

shepherdjerred2• 4 years ago

Ultimately, I have a self-discipline problem, and I know it. I shattered my own concentration, attention span, and memory, and I _still_ feel like I'm slowly putting myself back together.

This is how I feel. I'm not sure if it's rooted in something deeper and it's just a symptom, or if it's truly the problem.

kyrofa3• 4 years ago

Then we have similar struggles. I've found that there are various ways to attack self-discipline problems. Step one is trying to make it hard for yourself to fall. For me, that means not having cookies/candy/etc. in the house, and nowadays using a flip phone. Step 2 is actually trying to grow some self-control. I've been fasting Wednesdays and Fridays for this, and I do believe it's helping, but it's not a quick fix. I'll let you know if I figure out more steps :) . It's a journey, to be sure. Having a wife who's onboard with everything helps a lot.

jasoneckert• 4 years ago

I own a smartphone, but do not use it. It stays at home during the day and only comes with me during road trips (for use in the event I'm stranded). I don't check email on it, nor social media (and I'm not on Facebook).

Friends and family who want to contact me can call (or leave a message) on my landline, drop by for a visit, or meet up somewhere like a coffee shop (where I ask that their phone is put away).

The people that matter keep in contact frequently, and we have more meaningful interaction and conversations where everyone can enjoy the moment. Just like in the 1990s.

PaulHoule2• 4 years ago

I have a tracfone. It is in my backpack, I don't remember the number, I don't know if it is charged. It's an Android so it would probably take several attempts to charge it before it gives up and decides to accept the charge.

Sometimes I use it to see if mobile web sites I develop work on low-end Androids.

I also have an iPad in my backpack that connects via Wi-Fi and that runs Skype in addition to my laptop running Skype. I am just waiting for the people at the public library to tell me I'm not supposed to talk on a "phone" and then I'll tell them I'm not talking on a phone.

I live in upstate NY which has cell phone dead spots bigger than some European countries, it makes no sense at all to me to get an expensive mobile subscription from a carrier that chooses not to offer service where I live and many of the places I go.

t_mann2• 4 years ago

I am just waiting for the people at the public library to tell me I'm not supposed to talk on a "phone" and then I'll tell them I'm not talking on a phone.

Must be fun sitting next to you.

PaulHoule2• 4 years ago

A typical "call" for me is about 45 seconds on a headset so I don't think many people get annoyed.

eimrine• 4 years ago

Does anyone live without a smartphone?

I do it since my SE xperia mini has broken sensor on 2016.

What does that look like?

No stupid apps with pesky adware, most of them might be easily replaced with web-browser on laptop. Sometimes some things is not available for me but I do not miss it. My life is totally ofline but with intensive use of a laptop everywhere.

Do you feel isolated from your friends/family

Nope, I still use to have GSM phone and email.

or do you have some other more traditional way of keeping contact?

Lots of offline in addition to phone and email.

Do you think it's beneficial to you?

I am totally happy with this setup. Especially when I see somebody struggling with some animated shit happening on their smartphones. Nothing beats a beautiful CLI on my Debian laptop.

asldjajlfkj• 4 years ago

I do use a smartphone, for calls, chats, camera, navigation and sometimes music. But I deactivated Safari and uninstalled all other distracting apps.

I lived a few years without one, but it was hard to keep up with friends and so many companies require a phone for 2FA. Extra devices for camera and navigation do add up in cost in space.

hombre_fatal2• 4 years ago

I think the seduction of going phoneless stems from the idea that because taking a few steps along this axis (using social media less) improved your life, then running all the way to some logical conclusion (not using a smartphone at all) will improve your life further.

I think this is a flawed temptation. Perhaps you would be better off finding the middleground that maximizes your life like exercising the self-domination of not pulling out your phone just because you are in an awkward social situation.

Just tank the situation with full conscious attention like a badass instead of escaping.

t_mann2• 4 years ago

Perhaps you would be better off exercising the self-domination of finding a middleground

Frankly, I could imagine that for a lot of people that ship has sailed already. I wouldn't be surprised if the brain chemistry patterns were similar (enough) to substance addictions for a lot of heavy users, and afaik the only truly sustainable advice for addicts is to stay just stay clean (because addiction is strongly related to loss of self-control).

The question is whether the 'substantial harm' part of the definition of addiction is fulfilled, but that might mean that a lot of people are in an undesirable limbo where they can't control their consumption anymore but don't experience sufficiently intense negative consequences to warrant abstention.

shepherdjerred2• 4 years ago

I think the seduction of going phoneless stems from the idea that because taking a few steps along this axis (using social media less) improved your life, then running all the way to some logical conclusion (not using a smartphone at all) will improve your life further.

Is there a name for this? I think you've come to a reasonable conclusion. Maybe there is some happy middle-ground.

I think this is a flawed temptation. Perhaps you would be better off finding the middleground that maximizes your life like exercising the self-domination of not pulling out your phone just because you are in an awkward social situation.

I wish I had the self-control to do this. I've definitely gotten better, and it has gotten _much_ easier since I've uninstalled all non-essential apps and deleted social media. I think to some extent my tendencies have transferred over. For example, instead of checking Instagram when I'm bored, I now check Slack, email, Hacker News, the news, etc.

It's something psychological but I'm not really sure what to do about it.

User23• 4 years ago

For many people phone addiction is just that, an addiction. For those people, this advice is like telling an alcoholic to be a badass and stop with just one drink.

hombre_fatal2• 4 years ago

Sure, but plenty of people are giving advice for that, and I’m not going to assume anyone asking this question is helplessly addicted. That’s only something they can know after exhausting other options.

Freak_NL• 4 years ago

I've only gotten an Android-based smartphone this year (running GrapheneOS). Before that I used an Ubuntu smartphone for about five years. I had to switch to something that runs apps from one of the two divinely sanctioned app-stores, so this was the compromise that worked best.

The benefit of getting into a smartphone with access to all the apps this late is that I've seen the results of masses of people getting lost in their phones, and I've set up my phone in such a way as to refuse to participate in that. I use it as a portable camera, as navigation aid (not using anything Google provided) and directory service (looking up opening hours and such of points of interest) on holiday, and minimally, for apps like WhatsApp for people who I hold dear, but don't have the capacity to keep making exceptions for me (or my wife) for communication (think family group chats for the planning of family events).

It has almost no apps beyond a banking app, K9-mail, OsmAnd and OrganicMaps (for pre-downloaded maps on holiday), and WhatsApp with all notifications limited to a soundless icon on the lock screen.

For most things I do online, I use a desktop computer. For contact with a number of friends, email. I'm not tempted to browse mindlessly on my phone. I may read some news or look up some info when travelling, but I spend most of my travel time reading real books or just enjoying the scenery. Outside of holidays, the device is rarely in my hands. I put it in my bag when I go to the office and hardly look at it unless I expect a message. If something is really important, people will call (about the only thing that makes sound on that device).

The trick seems to be to not use it for consumption of stuff fed to you by an algorithm, and to only use it minimally for chat. And minimal notifications; certainly no audible ones.

night-rider3• 4 years ago

Nokia 105 as my daily driver. Also known as the 'terrorist phone' or 'old person phone'

ciupicri2• 4 years ago

What will you do when 2G and 3G become deprecated? (which might happen soon)

night-rider3• 4 years ago

Nokia dumbphones like the 105 can't connect to The Internet

Delk• 4 years ago

I'm kind of in between. My main phone is an old feature phone, and I've never had a smartphone as my main personal phone. I still own a smartphone but I don't usually have an active subscription for it, so it's mostly only connected to wifi at home or the office.

The smartphone is useful for banking, WhatsApp (some of my social circle use it for planning stuff), some MFA uses, some rather occasional use of maps or positioning, and some occasional other purposes such as public transport apps. I've never really wanted one as my main phone that I'd always keep at hand.

I've had smartphones for work, of course, but I've kept personal and work devices separate.

I'm not particularly active socially, and I feel I have little need for most social media. I would probably be missing out if I couldn't use the same messaging apps my social circle uses. Other than that, I mostly keep everyday contacts by phone or SMS.

zerop• 4 years ago

I recently started practicing one thing to make me less burdened because of smartphone: switch off data, wifi, keep it at corner of room, watch the temptation and avoid using untill someone calls me. When I go out, i carry it for navigation and payments

billpg• 4 years ago

There was a point in the mid 90s at university when I didn't have a phone number, neither a land-land at my rented shared house nor any sort of mobile. If I needed to call anyone I used the public phone on the corner a minute or so walk from the house.

And that was fine. Phones were expensive and I barely needed to talk to anyone that much and the public phones were fine for the occasional times I did need to. The people I did want to contact (my friends and the teachers) were all on email, which still worked back then.

There was a point when some friends and myself considered clubbing together to purchase a domain name. We had an IP address at the university and we could have installed a copy of Apache on it. We almost went through with it until the point when it asked for a phone number.

None of us had a phone number. We considered giving the phone number of a public phone but we imagined someone would have to be there to answer it all day.

Years later, I recalled that event and wondered what would have happened. I asked on a popular Q&A forum which I thought was on-topic but I was very quickly informed of my error. The two answers that got through kinda missed the point.

https://serverfault.com/questions/360602/how-to-register-a-d...

moistly• 4 years ago

I was on landline until last spring. Telco/ISP pissed me off to no end, so after having them install fibre at their cost, I shitcanned them completely, switching to a different ISP and a cell provider. Bought the cheapest flip phone I could find. I’m more of an email/texting guy, so my tablet with wifi more than suffices; the flip phone is fine for voice and voice mail, plus it’s teeny-tiny.

I don’t see any downsides.

lucas_membrane• 4 years ago

I do not. I have a land-line phone. Most of the time, I can hear it when it rings and I answer it if I can. I was not born to be on call. That's what if feels like.

Convenient telecommunication implies prolific interruption and a chaotic disruption of attention and priorities on the timescales that matter. Of course, a time may come when an emergency makes me regret not carrying a phone, but one does not burn down one's own home to make it easier to evacuate in case of fire.

WCSTombs2• 4 years ago

I don't own a smartphone. I carry a flip phone so people can contact me (and vice versa) if there's a need.

I carry around a 3"x5" Rhodia dot pad everywhere I go. If I'm ever really bored and not near my computer, I always have a handful of math problems on my back burner (generally open-ended) that I can break out to entertain myself. If it's a really long wait, though, like at an airport, I usually try to come with a book or something, since there's always the possibility of hitting a wall on the math.

I don't feel isolated. I and most of my coworkers are on-site most days, so I have plenty of in-person interaction at work. I also have regular Zoom calls (on my computer) with my few close connections.

nonrandomstring• 4 years ago

Does anyone live without a smartphone?

I'm the author of this book [1]. I've never owned a smartphone. Working with them early in the mobile social-media days made me realise what was to come, and how addictive and dangerous they would be.

What does that look like?

A $10 Nokia serves my needs for occasional use. It gets used only for voice and personal SMS coms, not for music, video, 2FA or any of that "mission creep" silliness. A landline is good for serious, lengthy conversations where a comfy chair and a hot cup of tea are also required.

Do you feel isolated from your friends/family,

The absolute opposite. Visiting people in real life is very important. When I meet people face-to-face I feel very connected with them. Still live in a culture and age group where it's reasonable to call round unexpectedly "on my way somewhere" and get a very warm response. But I don't really have pretend-friends. Can count my closest friends using my fingers, and the rest I try to meet with at least once per year in real life. We do real things like bike riding, beach BBQs, or jamming some music together.

do you have some other more traditional way of keeping contact?

I have a phone book, a paper one and address book in Emacs. Try to connect with people, send a life update or ask "how are you?" every now and then. Emails are quite important to me.

Do you think it's beneficial to you?

I would put it another way; It's not harmful to me in the ways that people who are dependent on smartphones clearly have problems, and tell me they have problems. I've forgotten how often I've heard " I wish I could be like you", so that makes me think something might be right about my choices.

[1] https://digitalvegan.net

plaidfuji• 4 years ago

not for music, video, 2FA

how do you deal with 2FA?

hammyhavoc• 4 years ago

Probably with a desktop app.

auth999• 4 years ago

https://authenticator.cc

jrexilius• 4 years ago

Almost, I run the Punkt MP02 (dumb phone). I don't feel isolated at all. Laptop works just fine for all my internet application needs. Voice calls and SMS work just fine for chat, coordination, or emergencies.

cheese_van• 4 years ago

My cheap smart phone is hard disconnected from anything to do with the web. No connectivity. At first, I chalked it up to my previous gov CI and comms career. But honestly, I'm just being stubborn. And it stays at home when I leave the house. (I'm reminded I should get a burner for car emergencies).

That said, there's a certain amount of privilege there. I'm well connected at home and don't need a tiny device to squint at as I can afford something large and visually ergonomic. I do understand that for many, a smart phone is their only connection.

Gnarl• 4 years ago

Yep. I do not own a mobile-phone. Never had a "smart"-phone. Finally cancelled my last GSM subscription ~2003 after having not used it for long. Reason: the RF gave me headaches & concentration problems. Yes, its the RF. At home, everything is wired. I try to limit wireless exposure as much as possible.

I have a fancy landline with phone book, speed-dial and answering machine. And email. And a postal address. Never lost a customer or a friend over not being reachable 24/7. On the contrary. Most people react with surprise and then envy when they discover I have no mobile-phone. Highly recommended.

corncob15• 4 years ago

A lot of these comments could read very differently depending on the age and living situation of the commenter. I'm a college student who likes to travel and usually doesn't have access to a personal vehicle (or I'm in cities where using a car is more annoying than not). I could probably keep up a perfectly fulfilling social life only using my laptop and its chat services, although I would definitely find it annoying. If I was forced to live without a smartphone, I'd be much more worried about the non-social things, mostly to do with transportation. I use my phone to pay public transit fare, unlock e-bikes or e-scooters, request rideshare services, display airline boarding passes, generally find my way in unfamiliar places, and so on. If I spent 99% of my time in the same city and mostly drove a personal car around, I wouldn't need those things as much.

iio7• 4 years ago

I absolutely hate smartphones. A smartphone is like a laptop without a keyboard. I find them way too big to carry around and so annoying to use. I have an old-school dumb phone with a physical keypad.

No, I do not in any way feel isolated. Rather I see the people I know being almost addicted to their smartphones. Wasting so much time on social media that gives them absolutely nothing in real life. Once the entire family was gathered (a lot of people), there was a dead silence, everyone was sitting there like freaking zombies with their faces glued to their stupid phones, they could hardly focus on a simple conversation for more than 2 minutes before their faces where back in their phones.

I personally find no use for it.

As_You_Wish• 4 years ago

I do not own a smartphone. I've had one in the past for a few years.

I do not feel isolated in the least.

I do have a VOIP on my computer, that's it.

If someone wants to reach me, they can call and see if I'm at my computer (I am a lot) and if not they leave a voice mail, send me an email, or text me on my VOIP.

I think it sucks to be tethered to a device where I am available every second of the day, where you can't have time to yourself. And I like a LOT of time for myself.

Also, I find it SUPER creepy that you can be tracked 24/7 and a corporation knows your EVERY move and it is recorded for all time on some computer drive. They will know forever every single place you've ever been. Creeps me the fluck out.

I just don't need a smart phone. I always know where I'm going so don't need the directions on a smart phone. For the rare occasions that I do, maybe once or twice a year, I just write down the directions, it's fine.

The first iphone was introduced in 2007, only 15 years ago. I certainly didn't feel isolated from friends and family before that time.

I don't know, maybe if you are only 14 or 15 or 20 years old and have always had smartphones, you might see it differently.

ikeserbestian2• 4 years ago

I was living with a Nokia since 2018 but things changed my last birthday, because my wife bought me an iPhone SE.

I don't use any "traditional" social media but using Safari daily for websites I like to visit and a mail client for async communication. Friends with iPhones can send me iMessages and there is an underrecognized, privacy oriented, instant messaging application for inter-family communication. Using few offline and online dictionaries, two online education apps, three content/web blocking apps, four games, lastly some printer-related apps and few more government/banking apps. Camera is useful and fun, if I remember my phone has one.

I am forgetting to check my phone often, not even for time or weather. My life same with a smart or dumb-phone nowadays, honestly; never feel less or more isolated. Outside it's functioning like my former Nokia - answering or making calls, using it's "smartyness" mostly in home. Maybe an iPad would be a better for me with a dumb-phone?

But I felt same things when I ditched my first smartphone and it's socialness, concerned about the reactions of "other" people. Nothing interesting; I didn't and still I don't crave for notification ocean, Facebook or WhatsApp groups, busy-ness networks, pictures of beverage or food, instant messages, location based suggestions, etc. Things were settled. Except the some part of government and some banks; nobody insisted about smartphones, locations, apps or social media services.

Benefits? Of course, yes, hell yeah. Because things weren't "mediocre" for me like nowadays, I started to ditching social media and so-called smart culture in 2012 and learnt new things about myself and life, regain some lost things; like some of my focus on people and daily life.

One example, I was only once lost in a big city (think a metropolis, one of the biggest in the world) in my whole life because I trusted the location services of a giant company and its smartphone application.

Another common one; I was stuck in some sticky situations thanks to smartphone batteries and unreliable touchscreens, middle of nowhere.

Some big goompany decided to close my account and I almost lost some data, today still no answer or explanation about it.

These are a few simple examples why smartphones are not okay for me, not the worst ones in my experience and opinion.

As a last note; I developed applications for smartphones, trained smartphone developers.

ravish0007• 4 years ago

Does anyone live without a smartphone?

No, I have another phone (Nokia basic) just to handle calls.

What does that look like?

It may look like, you are loosing trends and info (FOMO), but you'll be fine in time.

Do you feel isolated from your friends/family, or do you have some other more traditional way of keeping contact? Do you think it's beneficial to you?

Tell em, that they can reach you on 5PM-6PM [your own time frame].

Ask HN: Does anyone here not own a phone?

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