With the end of Roe, the US edges closer and closer to civil war

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/26/second-civil-war-us-abortion

by mnd999 • 4 years ago

14 30 4 years ago

Funny, if you look at actual polling and look at how people feel around certain issues, there isn't that big of a divide between Republicans and Democrats.

Perception Gap made an awesome quiz that you can use to see this -> https://perceptiongap.us/

It's moreso media corporations like TheGuardian, the NY Times, Fox News, CNN, etc. who are profiting off baiting their preferred side and increasing the hatred of their side for the other (and these companies make a great profit doing it!)

The Perception Gap (same link as above) found that the more news people consumed, the larger their perception gap (the more they overestimated the amount of extremist views in the other political party)

atoav2• 4 years ago

I last had that thought when we had the discussion a out a "divided public opinion on the COVID response" in Germany. Polls suggested roughly 80% were supportive of the measures.

If a political party would win with an 80:20 majority everybody would call it an absolute domination of the minority vote, yet somehow when it comes to vocal minorities we let them trample on us like this.

LewisVerstappen2• 4 years ago

Agreed. Relevant Taleb - https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

cmurf2• 4 years ago

There is very real and consequential disconnect between actual policy and polling, however. A fringe minority is setting policy for the majority, and will for the foreseeable future. If only more people were voting, the outcome would match the polling. Most Americans don't vote, and there are consequences for them and everyone else too.

Lincoln established in his 1st inaugural address that the judiciary did not have a monopoly on constitutional interpretation. if the policy of the government, upon vital questions, affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by the decisions of the Supreme Court, the instant they are made, in ordinary litigation between parties, in personal actions, the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent, practically resigned their government, into the hands of that eminent tribunal.

Second, Lincoln asserts the importance of majority rule. The majority is the only true sovereign of the people. Unanimity is impossible, therefore either the majority or minority must acquiesce in a dispute, or the government ceases, he said. And it is untenable long term for the majority to acquiesce to the minority in anything approximating a representative democracy. Yet this has happened twice in a decade, two presidents elected by a minority (not even a plurality), with consequences that directly results in the three justices on the Court today completely out of touch with either 20th or 21st century women's rights, calling back to the 19th century by their repugnant reference to Sir Matthew Hale and self evidently misogynist founders.

Third, Lincoln asserted the federal government is the sovereign of the nation and of the national people, that the Union cannot be dissolved for it would be a government terminating itself. And in effect it was turtles all the way down if a precedent is set that minorities can cause the termination of a country.

jleyank• 4 years ago

Well, I thought every survey said a majority of the us favoured abortion. Fat lot of good that did, as the supremes are now driving the conservative wedge rather than being non political.

Pakdef3• 4 years ago

How soon does a woman find out she is pregnant, on average?

atoav2• 4 years ago

Week 4 to 7 typically.

cratermoon2• 4 years ago

Typically a woman will miss a period and take a pregnancy test. Because menstruation cycles are variable, it may be up to a week after her usual time when she tests and finds out she's pregnant. Healthcare professionals typically count weeks of pregnancy by your last period. The first day of the last period marks the beginning of the first week of pregnancy. By the very first day of a missed period, a woman is already considered 4 weeks pregnant.[1] So, five weeks or more.

Why do you ask?

1 https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/how-to-tell-if...

Pakdef3• 4 years ago

I ask because it should be considered when deciding how far into a pregnancy an abortion is allowed

h2odragon2• 4 years ago

Or Congress could pass a law

dragonwriter• 4 years ago

Or Congress could pass a law

That's likely one of the steps on the road to civil war, followed by the law being struck down for absence of Constitutional authority.

So it's not really an an “or”.

mytailorisrich• 4 years ago

Really this is what should have happened 50 years ago instead of hiding behind the Supreme Court and its stretch decision at the time.

h2odragon2• 4 years ago

it's been talked about. one of the more recent attempts: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/p...

cmurf2• 4 years ago

Clearly it will be struck down as unconstitutional by this Court as a violation of the 10th amendment. The Court already asserted the power rests with states, not the Congress.

sn0w_crash4• 4 years ago

Shame on the Guardian. A civil war is nothing to take lightly.

We are all neighbors at the end of the day.

Everywhere in the world people live in countries where things happen they disagree with. Policies and opinions change over time.

These are not reasons for Americans to destroy one another.

NikolaNovak2• 4 years ago

One side is actively and enthusiastically and loudly planning working preparing and acting to destroy the other. Through any and all means necessary. Openly and proudly.

Articles like this are attempt to be a wake up call to the happily ignorantly sleeping.

sn0w_crash4• 4 years ago

Mods - why was my comment removed?

It was a comment against the prospect of civil war and violence against Americans.

Is this what the mods consider against HN terms?

eimrine• 4 years ago

If your against violence against Americans comment actually was an anti-abort claim than even anti-violence comment may be against HN terms.

sn0w_crash4• 4 years ago

My comment didn’t even mention abortion.

slater• 4 years ago

This comment? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31887804 it's still up, for me.

sn0w_crash4• 4 years ago

Ty it’s been reinstated

nabla9• 4 years ago

I think this is the moment after witch constitutional hardball becomes the norm. McConnel preventing Obama from nominating anyone into the SCOTUS already an important violation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_hardball

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Democracies_Die

moistly2• 4 years ago

All y’all don’t need a civil war, you need a general strike.

With the end of Roe, the US edges closer and closer to civil war

Related Stories