We've known how to prevent a school shooting for more than 20 years

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/weve-known-how-to-prevent-a-school-shooting-for-more-than-20-years/

by stevenalowe • 4 years ago

18 22 4 years ago

the TLDR: way earlier mental health interventions to interrupt the pattern (suicidal-to-homicidal)

user_named3• 4 years ago

Isn't the issue that the shooters have been bullied for years? And that bullying is naturally occurring in these forced enclosures that schools are. Similar to how chickens will choose a victim to peck when they're locked in a cage.

cormacrelf3• 4 years ago

If the school shooters were instead using grenades or rocket launchers, would you still think “the issue” was bullying? No, you would ban grenades in a heartbeat. They are in fact banned in the US.

The shooters are using weapons of war already. Assault rifles are for soldiers. You’ve just been convinced to turn a blind eye to that. And you’re coming up with ridiculous metaphors to describe this as an inevitable force of nature, as if there is no man-made highly efficient killing machine involved. (Edit, sorry for venting, the article also seems to ignore the part about the guns.)

_-david-_3• 4 years ago

The shooters are using weapons of war already.

Just not true. They are using civilian versions which are missing functionality. That is like saying when someone kills people with a car saying they are using a vehicle of war (tank). A car is missing functionality that a tank has.

techdragon• 4 years ago

But there’s two issues here … inappropriate levels of access to guns… and mental health problems that lead these people to commit acts of violence against others.

While it’s obviously not easy to predict the future on something like this. I personally would be completely unsurprised if should they manage to take away the guns, the “school shooting by someone attending that school” simply transformed into a smaller number of axe/machete/knife attacks.

user_named3• 4 years ago

Where guns are outlawed they use knives and swords. The weapon is the instrument but not the cause.

ThrowawayR2• 4 years ago

"The shooters are using weapons of war already. Assault rifles are for soldiers."

This is the kind of ignorance, in as non-pejorative sense as possible, that actually makes it harder for knowledgeable advocates of gun control to succeed. Repeating this is viewed akin to how we on HN would view anyone repeating the unintentionally hilarious "11 Signs Your Child Is A Hacker" (https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/signs-yo...).

At the distances involved and against untrained and unprotected victims, pistols (much easier to aim than a long arm), shotguns (more lethal), and hunting rifles (which use larger, more powerful bullets than assault rifles; look up "battle rifle") are just as effective at creating carnage. (Every last one of these types of firearms have been extensively used by soldiers in wartime as well, so the "weapons of war" fearmongering just sounds, well, ignorant and who takes uninformed opinions seriously?) So, to the point, what exactly do people think banning assault rifles will do other than cause the deranged to switch to one of these other types? It is pure security theater that is obvious even to non-firearms owners.

Ban the other types as well, you say? While some might wish otherwise, even less public support exists in the US for that since those are commonly owned for self-defense and for sport.

WhyKill• 4 years ago

Grenades aren't banned in the US. It's called a Destructive Device.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840...

s_m_t• 4 years ago

No, they typically aren't really bullied.

user_named3• 4 years ago

Really?

etempleton• 4 years ago

A key commonality among these student mass shooters is that no one is really paying attention to them at home and they are ostracized at school.

There is something wrong with how Americans are raising children starting some time in the 90s. A lot of freedoms pre-teens and teens of prior generations enjoyed no longer seem available and yet parent a seem less present then ever.

spaceprison• 4 years ago

Agreed, I feel like the issue is societal first.

danielscrubs2• 4 years ago

Programming and web surfing are addictive things. It doesn’t surprise me at all that parents are not present. :(

fizzpack• 4 years ago

Every country in the world would have similar incidents then though. With arson or stabbings or whatever weapons are available

danielscrubs2• 4 years ago

I’ve heard that in some countries the teachers are every year changing the classes so as to create more harmonious groups. This means breaking up groups that are bullying and keeping the bullies and the bullied apart. Also keeping “good” friend groups together as much as possible. Seems like a good system to me.

jononomo• 4 years ago

It annoys me that the author doesn’t summarize the findings about how to prevent a school shooting in the first paragraph. I read for several minutes and finally gave up. Journalists should realize that the point isn’t to get me to read more — the point is to convey information.

Gunax• 4 years ago

is crucial to set up systems that spot teens who are struggling and may become dangerous. You can’t predict violent events or who will go from threatening behavior to murder, O’Toole said. But it is possible for us to look around and see the people who are having problems and need intervention. Interventions can prevent violence, even if we can’t predict it.

Yea so i am skeptical. The problem seems to be similar to many rare events: false positives. It's just so rare, that any signs or interventions are going to apply mostly to people who have done nothing wrong.

And even if you do suspect someone is going to start killing... What are you going to do? It's a free country, and we are not yet living in Oceania. Most people will tell you to... 'go away' if you offered some intervention (I would too).

We cannot even prevent suicides, which are 1000 times more common.

We've known how to prevent a school shooting for more than 20 years

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