Ask HN: Is it ok to interview with other companies after accepting an offer?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3118530

by atarian • 15 years ago

14 17 15 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Hello HN,

I'm a college senior who recently accepted a full-time position at a tech company after I graduate, but was interested in interviewing with some of the other companies like Amazon and Google just for the hell of it to see if I can pass. I'm actually interested in moving into these companies in the future, but I was wondering if this is considered to be bad practice or unethical? Thanks.

jburwell• 15 years ago

Generally speaking, you should stop interviewing once you have accepted an offer. Your soon-to-be employer has moved from decided to give you job to planning how you will contribute to the company. It is extremely poor form to back out post offer acceptance (exceptions would be some kind significant life event). On the flip side, if you are planning to interview with no intention of accepting a job from a company then you are wasting their time and potentially depriving a viable candidate of an opportunity to interview. If you get a call from a Google or an Amazon, explain your situation, and use it as opportunity to cultivate a network. They will appreciate your ethics, and if you don't like your job, you can reconnect in 6 months or a year. The bottom line is that you have accepted a job -- relax and enjoy your remaining months of little to no responsibility.

okuzmin• 15 years ago

The way you put it (and that's an important condition!), I wouldn't call it unethical. However, if you go to an interview knowing you won't accept the offer even if you get it, you're effectively wasting the interviewer's time (and there may be more than one person involved in assessing your skills). I was in a similar situation about 3.5 years ago when I scheduled interviews with three different companies, and I accepted the offer after the first one. I called and canceled the other two interviews for the same reason: I'd rather have those interviewers working with other prospects.

nostrademons• 15 years ago

It basically is the same situation as continuing to interview once you have a job. It's not unethical, it's how the labor market works. However, you probably don't want to let your employer know about it, and they probably won't like you very much if you take another job.

horofox• 15 years ago

It's ok, they are BUYING your lifetime. So get the best deal.

Work ethics? Why should work ethics exist when companies threat people like shit?

mathattack6• 15 years ago

Completely unethical, and may come back to bite you.

Unethical because you are presenting yourself under false pretenses, taking interview slots from people who don't have jobs yet, and are possibly breaking the rules of your placement office.

It will come back to bite you in may ways. If your current employer finds out what you're doing, they may go back on your offer. (How would you like it if they kept interviewing people after they offered you the job?) If Google or Amazon find out, you may get blacklisted in the future. Classmates who see what you're up to will not trust you in the future.

Net - protect your integrity, as it takes years to make a reputation, and minutes to break it.

EDIT - fixed spelling, and add one more point - If you want to work at one of them in the future, get to know the HR reps, and keep contact with your classmates that are going there. Let them know what you're up to. They're the ones most likely to pull you through in the future. (And block it if they see you behaving poorly in the meantime)

wavephorm2• 15 years ago

  Completely unethical

Wrong. Unless the company is paying him a retainer he is unemployed and therefore can entertain offers.

mathattack6• 15 years ago

Wavephorm,

I respectfully disagree. He may legally entertain other offers, but that doesn't make it ethical. If it was ethical, and wouldn't cause residual harm to his reputation, there would be no issue telling the world he was doing it.

bayouborne2• 15 years ago

At first reading, Mathattack's response seems obviously the most appropriate (Unethical - presenting yourself under false pretenses, possibly breaking the rules of your placement office, lacking integrity, endangering your reputation, etc), but upon further reflection, Horofox's observation has currency also - in a world that now seems totally lacking in corporate responsibility to the worker (intentionally unfunding/underfunding pensions, layoffs of real people that occur strictly as a 'this quarter' response to share price, layoffs that happen as a result of offshoring every single function possible in order to maximize shareholder profit, prole/CEO pay ratios which haven't been seen since the Emancipation Proclamation, and on and on ad nauseum) why shouldn't each of us behave in a purely rational/self interested way?

Is there a reason to have regard for the corporation in today's world? Odds are the company you accepted the offer from was very likely one which has no notion of a social contract - they need you today and if they don't need you tomorrow you'll surely be gone without a second thought, and if that's the case shouldn't we behave in a similar manner? Or does personal integrity still matter?

mathattack6• 15 years ago

Bayouborne-

Relevant points, but a couple thoughts:

- For better or worse, work is like the prisoner's dilemma game. Some people assume, "Screw everyone else" because they view the game as just one play. In the reality, we have long careers. Companies that routinely take advantage of their employees don't stick around forever. In most fields being known as someone who will take the short term selfish path every time will eventually hurt you.

- The obvious second point is of course you should avoid companies that have too crazy a CEO to workerbee pay scale, and that treat their employees poorly.

- Most of the great success stories in technology are build on loyalty. Ron Conway commands great personal loyalty. (And goes the extra yard for his firms) Many of the legends of Silicon Valley are mentors to large groups of people. Not everyone acts selfishly. But if you do act unduly selfishly, you'll turn off even the most magnanimous people that can help.

Just my 2 cents, but I do see this as black and white. I've seen many people take short cuts, and seen many people become highly successful. The two groups don't overlap.

bayouborne2• 15 years ago

It appears (from my vantage point 1300 miles away) that the Valley is somewhat different what a lot of America has become. There may still exist in Cupertino, Los Gatos, etc, an enlightened collegiality, but what about the rest of non-startup America?

I think we've again become the proverbial Cog in the Machine, actually worse than that, not even a cog, just the bloody goop that's unfortunately still needed for the time being to keep the machine running - and as the machine inevitably becomes more efficient, fewer cogs and a hell of a lot less lubricant will be needed. Again, in this new Brave New World, why should we care about the corporation? Sorry if I sound like a '20s Marxist, but [it's my] natural reaction everything I've seen happen in the last decade.

Joakal• 15 years ago

The inverse perspective works too:

An employer hires you. Then they come across more candidates. They continue interviewing for the same position. You then find out that they have been interviewing, your loyalty is shaken and you know that the employer can fire you within the trial period which makes the feeling worst.

New applicants will not know that the position was filled and get formally rejected if they are not significantly better than you. If they do find out about position being pre-filled, they'll resent the employer for continuing to interview them.

Please note that employment culture is very different in many companies and to not take things for granted. Look at Steve Yeegee's recent post regarding Amazon vs Google.

wavephorm2• 15 years ago

Until you receive a paycheck don't think owe them anything.

Go for the interviews. Very few corporations these days have any sense of ethics or even common decency anymore (which is why so many people build startups) so there is no reason not to decline their job offer should a better one come up.

djb_hackernews2• 15 years ago

Whenever we made offers to students who hadn't yet graduated we all made it very clear that they are free to interview and accept other offers and we should be prepared for that situation (not in any particular way, but mentally). They didn't owe us anything.

Of course we made attractive offers to candidates we thought were a great fit and where we thought that feeling was mutual. and we never had a candidate accept and then take another job.

to mathattacks points:

- You are young, and your career will be long.

- No one is going to blame you for looking out for yourself.

- No one is going to go out of their way to black ball an anyone over an entry level position. You are not that special.

- strong developers have the world by the balls. There is no reason to play loyalty to someone who isn't even paying you. It's time to get yours.

If it were me I wouldn't have accepted the offer. Assuming you are graduating in May, it'd be way too early for me to make a commitment. But thats me. However, it wouldn't weigh one gram on my conscience if I accepted the offer and kept interviewing to find a better fit. I'd probably use the offer as a bargaining chip.

mathattack6• 15 years ago

DJB - I greatly respect what your company is doing, but I think your firm is in the minority. This is why most college placement offices suspend campus recruiting for people who reneg on offers. I cite MIT Sloan only because I found their policy by accident when I couldn't find their undergrad one. This is consistent with what I've seen at many other places. (I have no link to MIT) From http://mitsloan.mit.edu/cdo/policies.php

"We expect that all offers and acceptances be made in good faith. Students are obliged to honor accepted offers. Reneging on an acceptance is a breach of MIT Sloan's Student Recruiting Policies. If a student reneges on an offer, the recruiter should notify Jackie Wilbur at 617-258-6492, as soon as possible. We will review the situation and follow up on your behalf."

djb_hackernews2• 15 years ago

It works both ways. According to that link they also require offers to be open offers until January or February (depending on the position).

Interesting link. But I'm still not convinced the circumstances of an MIT MBA offer are similar to an entry level software developer offer.

Let me ask you a question. If it is his ethical duty keep up his end of the acceptance, how long must he stay at the job before it's ok to leave? When does the at will employment argument enter the picture?

Bottom line, the market for software developers is too hot right now to settle. Who knows when these conditions will happen again, if ever.

Ask HN: Is it ok to interview with other companies after accepting an offer?

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