Just say no to Ruby on Rails (or at least think about it)

http://blog.pairwise.com/2007/06/27/oh-god-dont-date-ruby-on-rails/

by solfox • 19 years ago

30 26 19 years ago

blog.pairwise.com

Readmore3• 19 years ago

If you don't like Ruby no Rails don't use it. There doesn't have to be some religious debate every time someone 'takes it for a spin'. Ruby on Rails makes you more productive, end of story. (Edited to remove unnecessary flame. Sorry about that, it's been a long week.)

aston• 19 years ago

No need for personal attacks ("I don't think the authors rip off of hot or not with pictures of kittens is really a good use case for scaling a popular site." in case it disappears).

Also, I'll just point out that there is certainly a religion of RoR unlike that of any other web framework. Thus, whenever someone makes disparaging comments, some RoR fan takes serious offense. You seem like you were personally offended, for example.

Readmore3• 19 years ago

I just get tired of everyone that writes a website becoming an authority on all things Internet related. That said, my comment was off the cuff and I'll retract it. I'm sorry if I hurt any feelings.

ivan• 19 years ago

I agree that RoR made me productive. I produced so much custom functions (helpers) like never before in any other framework. Especially love pagination.

plusbryan2• 19 years ago

If you actually read the post, you'd see my point is just to warn against the religious fanaticism that surrounds what is essentially a framework. More options are good, right?

willarson• 19 years ago

I don't think its so much a Rails issue as a Ruby issue. Of late a new breed of Rubyists has emerged, and they are surprisingly militant. Here's hoping its just a phase. More options are indeed good, ands its weird to see the users of a language heavily based off of perl decide that there is indeed only one solution to a problem. ;)

zurla• 19 years ago

my impression was that likebetter's troubles weren't really problems with rails so much as problems with their hosting co, bandwidth, and maybe the usual db scaling issues. correct me if I'm wrong, though.

gleb• 19 years ago

While Ruby and Rails are slow, the issue is overblown. There is at most an order of magnitude difference between RoR and reasonable alternatives (php, python, etc.), and realistacally the difference is closer to a factor of 3. This might sound important, but there is bigger fish to fry when talking about performance. All of the above are dead slow, 3-4 orders of magnitude slower than optimal C implementation.

In a typical web app, HTTP optimization and doing O(1) queries rather O(n^2) per page is where performance lies. You can develop web apps quickly these days, and the code can be clean, but you end up going from Palo Alto to Menlo Park through Paris. Sure, a supersonic plane can do that route quicker than a handicapped turtle, but the trick is not going through Paris altogether. RoR makes rewring the code to avoid the Paris trip easy, fast and resulting code remains reasonably readable. And that's the holy grail.

Having said that, that 3x performance boost to RoR would sure be nice, and would put more areas of our application into "Roundtrip through Paris OK" category.

lupin_sansei• 19 years ago

"In a typical web app, HTTP optimization and doing O(1) queries rather O(n^2) per page is where performance lies"

Yes, I have found 99% of my speed increases from good database indexing and using hashtables to store data you need more than once.

steve• 19 years ago

Indeed, databases are real root of all performance problems. I rewrote a site to use the database much less frequently (mostly just for the initial loading and write operations) and I've been incredibly satisfied with the results.

bootload• 19 years ago

"... And there's no documentation to the point of seeming intentional ..."

Python documentation is on my continuous reading list & is one of the pluses for python usage. But lack of it hasn't stopped Rails adoption. Why? Is it that Rails is that simple to use (for experienced developers)?

mechanical_fish• 19 years ago

There are several great Ruby and Rails books. The only "problem" is that many of them cost more than $0.

Some programmers think that $50 is a lot of money, but that time is basically free. Frankly, these people deserve PHP.

tyler2• 19 years ago

I don't understand the constant attacks on Rails documentation. There are very few things that I can't find in the documentation provided. Not to mention, if you have a solid knowledge of Ruby, the Rails code itself makes for pretty good documentation.

aantix2• 19 years ago

So, the blogger is building a business for which conceivably he would like to succeed and sell for millions and one of his gripes is that he doesn't want to pay $26 for the Rails book?

Besides the fact that it is a great book and can answer 95% of your Rails questions, I have a hard time taking him seriously with this statement. Can't shell out $26 for a manual to the platform you are basing your business off of?

What next? Are they hosting their site on Geocities?

Tichy2• 19 years ago

I also always gripe with Ruby's lack of documentation. It just doesn't feel right. In comparison: I have never spent a dime on a Java book, in the 10 years that I have been using the language. On the other hand, I can't count how often I have downloaded the various available online docs, for example when I did consulting and used the clients computer. I also travel a lot, which has hampered my progress in Ruby (that book is heavy, so it stayed home) - OK, I should have bought the e-book, but still...

26$ is not a lot, but it is a lot if you are not sure if it is worth your money, or if it will fulfill all your needs. Is that the only Ruby book you'll ever need, or are more investments coming up (Rails book(s))? It's all about risks, in a way. Why else use Open Source Software? With Java, I know my needs are taken care of, and if I ever have a problem, I will find the answer for free, and fast.

aantix2• 19 years ago

There are certainly enough examples out there that will get you up and running with Rails and will at the very least allow you to make an appropriate assessment as to whether it will improve your development productivity.

If you're at the point where you're thinking of buying the book my assumption is that you're already passed the point of assessing Rails and are looking to understand the more advanced functionality.

If you're at that point, $26 is nothing.

cglee• 19 years ago

I think titles like this post deserve a harsh response from Rails enthusiasts. It's meant to provoke, so why complain when the provoked respond passionately? If you so choose, you'll also find a lot of well thought out Rails posters (B. Tate, S. Halloway, D. Thomas, etc).

dallasrpi• 19 years ago

ah more FUD about Rails, hardly original anymore. If you couldn't manage more than one user you clearly don't know what your doing or were too lazy to try to figure it out.

chaostheory• 19 years ago

to each his own. he has some valid arguments but isn't rewriting the case with pretty much every language?

Just say no to Ruby on Rails (or at least think about it)

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