Why don't developers dress better?

http://putthison.com/post/10782417306/why-dont-developers-dress-better

by valentin • 15 years ago

14 14 15 years ago

putthison.com

epochwolf• 15 years ago

It's repost of a tumblr blog. Lots of discussion on the source article: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3048550

arohner• 15 years ago

1) Because programming in a suit is uncomfortable.

2) Because companies that have dress codes tend to produce bad software. This correlation turned into "I am not dressed well, therefore I write good software."

Sayth PG: "Dressing up is not so much bad in itself. The problem is the receptor it binds to: dressing up is inevitably a substitute for good ideas. It is no coincidence that technically inept business types are known as "suits.""

From http://www.paulgraham.com/bubble.html

_pius• 15 years ago

Because programming in a suit is uncomfortable.

Not really. Are you assuming that or speaking from experience?

kstenerud• 15 years ago

Mostly because geeks in general have no dress sense.

I've made numerous attempts at dressing better, but the result is always "dressed to the appropriate level, but everything clashes or is just plain wrong". Maybe one day when I can afford to go to a mens store and say "Dress me and make me look good. I don't care how much it costs", I'll take another stab at it.

sgarman• 15 years ago

Interesting. Seems like dressing up is the "right" way and those who dress as they please(without making anyone uncomfortable) are not in the wrong per say, but maybe under achieving. I suppose those in power choose(implicitly) what the right dress is. If developers held all the power would this author be writing wondering why people didn't dress in t-shirts and hoodies to fit in?

mgeraci• 15 years ago

I think people should wear what makes them feel comfortable. Ties work for Jesse, but there are some jobs where a tie is required, and that doesn't work for the wearer. This could explain why people have an aversion to "dressing up." I'm a jeans and t-shirt person when I'm at work because that's what I feel most at ease in.

randallsquared• 15 years ago

You are building the future, so dress like it.

So, jeans, then? A person in a suit isn't dressing like they're building anything. They're dressing like they want to tell other people to build something.

aphyr• 15 years ago

I was nodding along until I started reading Put This On. Roughly 80% of the clothing pictured suggests "uncomfortable", "impractical" or "I'm a tool". I'll keep my sneakers. :-/

theseanstewart• 15 years ago

It's not that we don't know how to dress or don't care how to dress ourselves, it's just that we don't care what you think about what we're wearing. Why would I wear something I feel uncomfortable in? The only time I'll wear a suit or a tie is if I'm going to a wedding or a funeral. What someone wears shouldn't define how "professional" they are.

> You are building the future, so dress like it.

Exactly. I'm trying to build a future where wardrobe isn't a predictor for success.

ahi• 15 years ago

Zuck is a horrible example of a guy that doesn't need to impress anyone. He doesn't wear suits for us, he wears suits for the investment bankers.

I don't dress better for a lot of reasons but mostly because it doesn't matter. Charitably, I consider fashion to be little more than an expensive hobby.

Not so charitably, the places I have worked, fashion was always inversely correlated with having a clue. "To some, it’s a secret handshake. It’s a 'my talent supersedes my necessity to follow the guidelines of society.'" This is partly true. Most fashion rules are not guidelines of society, but guidelines of a select few who are so useless and boring they sit around all day worrying about what to wear. The rest of us go for the bare minimum required to keep their mouths shut so we can actually get some work/play done. In that way, ignoring the guidelines is a signal that we're not vapid nincompoops.

mhd• 15 years ago

For who's definition of "better"? If I remember correctly, put this on was the blog who did a video about "proper" jeans (i.e. unwashed, indigo, able to stand on its own). There are still a lot of people who would consider jeans of any form to be out of the question for anyone not needing them for work…

Never mind that you're most likely sitting in an office alone or with co-workers all day. Why would you dress up like a lawyer when you have no contact with clients? Getting a dozen suits is quite expensive, never mind the laundry costs. It just strikes most engineers as quite ineffective.

"It's not for others, it's for your own self-esteem!" Really? That sounds a lot like the argument a car salesman would make. So me riding around on a bike is a bit childish, too? Yes, suits, cars, toupees, escorts – all might help a few people, but aren't we fighting symptoms instead of root causes here?

I'm in my thirties now, and I understand the pressure/urge of "dressing like a grown up". I do have some saddle-stitched shoes, English shirts and a few suits (most of it a bit too big, as I've lost a few pounds recently). I'm aware that "woot" shirts don't flatter anyone's physique…

But trying to fit in by dressing a certain way isn't exactly the epitome of growing up (one might argue about that). So dress up nice if you think that particular style makes you look better (and there is a certain evolution of mens wear…).

I just disagree that you a) have to, and b) about what to wear. In my opinion chinos + dress shirts are hardly better than t-shirts and jeans, so that seems hardly worth it. And well-tailored suits are quite high maintenance in comparison and difficult to choose.

TL;DR - That's why I'm wearing my Star Fleet uniform all the time.

lhnz• 15 years ago

There seems to be a meme in hacker culture: "Business people are tools; I want to be judged on my ability and not my looks. I don't wish to manage people or do sales so I will dress down. Crocs with socks for me!"

In the majority of companies, here's what actually happens: (1) you are still judged on your looks, (2) you are not given client-facing roles, (3) you are kept in the basement.

Why sacrifice social power for mere comfort and 'base' comradeship with your hacker friends?

When you are speaking to another developer, then sure enough, communicate in a strictly rational way. Be logical; talk ideas; sidestep social niceties; dress functionally. They understand. But in the rest of the world or in the context of a larger company, why not communicate on a level normal people understand: visually through your dress sense and body language. A crisp white shirt is a far greater signal of power than a well crafted sentence.

edit: Don't wear a suit if you're a developer if nobody else does though. It will give off a very bad impression. Aim for smart casual. Make sure your shirts are always ironed. Attention to detail matters. If in doubt emulate classic hollywood actors or the tamer high-fashion adverts. They set the standards that you will be judged on.

sp332• 15 years ago

I think you guys interpreting this advice a little too narrowly. Here's one of the guys from Put This On (Jesse Thorn) advising the Kickstarter guys how to "Dress Like Grownups" http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/jesse-thorn-from-put-this-on...

dhyasama• 15 years ago

There seems to be a belief that dressing nice means wearing a suit but that's not so. You can look very nice and still be very comfortable. Simply wear clothes that fit well and ditch the hoodie and you're most of the way there.

Why don't developers dress better?

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