Switzerland’s astonishingly polite armed conflict of 1847 (2019)

https://militaryhistorynow.com/2019/02/27/charm-offensive-switzerlands-polite-war-of-1847/

by DrZootron • 5 years ago

122 110 5 years ago

eatonphil• 5 years ago

On a tangent, the list of Liechtenstein-Switzerland military conflicts on Wikipedia is hilarious and kind of cute.

For example:

On 26 August 1976, just before midnight, 75 members of the Swiss Army and a number of packhorses mistakenly took a wrong turn and ended up 500 metres into Liechtenstein at Iradug, in Balzers. The Liechtensteiners reportedly offered drinks to the Swiss soldiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein%E2%80%93Switzerl...

panick21_9• 5 years ago

There is actually a joke in the Swiss military that they Switzerland invades Lichtenstein every year because some of the army somewhow ends up going into it.

martopix• 5 years ago

It happens all the time between Italy and San Marino too.

throaway46546• 5 years ago

Well if you know you are going to get free drinks why not?

xhevahir• 5 years ago

I like the story of how the foreign minister of the Bavarian Socialist Republic declared war on Switzerland and Württemberg for declining his request for sixty locomotives.

nix232• 5 years ago

On 3 March 2007, a company of 171 Swiss soldiers mistakenly entered Liechtenstein

That was my company :)

BTW: I think a year or two later the same happened but with France (was a bit a bigger "outcry")

EDIT: The wikipedia story is not the full one, two pretty nice police guy's stopped us and told us where the swiss border is.

Victerius• 5 years ago

Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

- Harry Lime, The Third Man

vmception• 5 years ago

And an international brand and perfect geopolitical positioning

as if production is the coveted metric

collias• 5 years ago

The very conflict this article is about gave birth the the Red Cross.

Ichthypresbyter• 5 years ago

While General Dufour (who had commanded the Federal forces in the Sonderbund War) was one of the five-man founding committee, the event that precipitated the founding of the Red Cross was the visit of Henri Dunant to the battlefield at Solferino immediately after the battle.

The Battle of Solferino (part of the Second War of Italian Independence, in which an alliance of France and Sardinia defeated Austria) took place 12 years after the Sonderbund War, in 1859. As far as I know Dunant had taken no part in the Sonderbund War- he was a student in Geneva at the time- and neither had anyone else on the committee apart from Dufour. In fact, two of them had been outside Switzerland at the time.

Archelaos2• 5 years ago

Harry Lime was misinformed. The cuckoo clock is primarily a product from the Black Forest region of southern Germany. -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_clock#%22Chalet%22_styl...

Bayart• 5 years ago

The Swiss were actively involved in those very wars in Italy as mercenaries, and that's also where their neutrality originates. At the same time and throughout the Early Modern period, Switzerland was rife withe religious zealotry going awry. It remained an impoverished agrarian country up until the 20th c.

wwtrv2• 5 years ago

Until the mid 19th century rather. By 1900 it was already the second richest country per capita in Europe (only behind UK and only Belgium was slightly ahead as well throughout most of the 19th century). Then again almost all European countries could had been described as impoverished and agrarian back then…

panick21_9• 5 years ago

Northern Italy was an Urban rich region, its not suppressing that they had more intellectual output for 100s of years compared to Switzerland.

Switzerland really only emerged in the mid to late 19th century. However the intellectual and scientific output since then on a per population bases can match the Italy.

kragen8• 5 years ago

I'm going to restrict myself entirely to discoveries and inventions before 01900, just before a (German!) patent clerk in the Swiss patent office invented modern physics.

The Swiss discovered graph theory, the Ice Age, the Law of Large Numbers and actually most of pre-Laplacian probability theory, cavitation, DNA, topology, ozone, the modern mathematical concept of "function", metal ion complexation by ligands, the endothelium, e, stevia and several thousand other plant and arthropod species, arguably logarithms, the molecular structure of cocaine, the nuclei of comets, classical beam theory and in particular the critical load of buckling beams, nitrocellulose (aka smokeless powder and celluloid), the laws of hydrodynamics, the origin of beeswax, convergent evolution (de Candolle), the composition of alcohol, the hyperbolic functions, dolomite, the Balmer formula for the spectrum of hydrogen, the atmospheric origin of plant carbon content, light-entrained circadian rhythms, the irrationality of π, the Lambert law for diffuse illumination, and the contagious nature of syphilis.

They also did an enormous amount of careful work in the 17th through 19th centuries on cataloging and systematizing fossils, stratigraphy, geography, plant taxonomy, fossil animal taxonomy, etc., that underpins our modern understanding of the history of Earth and life. That work isn't so easily summarized in a list of discoveries, because it wasn't the discovery of one single species or mineral that led to the insights, but the accumulated weight of many thousands.

They also invented Calvinism (to which Congregationalism, Puritanism, and Presbyterianism belong), invar, the Argand lamp (the main light source other than the fireplace in most European and American homes during the 19th century), Saussurian semiotics, most of current mathematical notation, jewel bearings, arguably Wagner's Ring cycle of operas, the transverse Mercator projection and actually most modern map projections, caissons, the cross-beat escapement, absinthe, solar ovens (Horace de Saussure), passivation of iron by pickling, the remontoire, the fuel cell, the rack-and-pinion railway, the internal-combustion-powered automobile (the de Rivaz engine, running on hydrogen, in 01808), the full metal jacket bullet, the first practical hygrometer, Rousseau's political philosophy, forensic facial reconstruction, the high-explosive artillery shell, the roller chain, malleable cast iron [edit: maybe not], the microtome, the tourbillon escapement, milk chocolate, and scientific medicine (post-Galenic, cleaning wounds and using drugs with knowledge of their lethal doses).

And Jaquet-Droz's automaton called The Writer is perhaps the most astounding Swiss invention of all: an android containing a programmable pen plotter using a vector font, completed by 01774, 248 years ago.

Maybe we should give them some credit for inventing modern democracy, too.

Suck it, Leonardo.

systemvoltage• 5 years ago

I’m amazed. Genuinely curious, how do you happen to know all this!?

CaptainZapp• 5 years ago

You forgot LSD, for which Albert Hofmann is famous.

Less well known is that he was also the first to synthesize psilocybin.

Biganon• 5 years ago

Also: "Alexandre Emile Jean Yersin (22 September 1863 – 1 March 1943) was a Swiss-French physician and bacteriologist. He is remembered as the co-discoverer of the bacillus responsible for the bubonic plague or pest, which was later named in his honour: Yersinia pestis."

01acheru2• 5 years ago

Just out of curiosity, why are you writing all years with a leading zero?

dotancohen2• 5 years ago

What about the roads? And the aqueduct? And irrigation?

SyzygistSix• 5 years ago

That and HR Geiger.

ornornor• 5 years ago

LSD, also. And many other things as listed further down.

m_mueller4• 5 years ago

Much of this was thanks to General Dufour afaik, the federalist General. Can’t think of a better way to navigate 150k combatants to come out of this war basically unharmed, on both sides. The conclusion was foregone, but convincing everyone of this was the tricky part.

nabla9• 5 years ago

International Committee of the Red Cross and The First Geneva Convention are part of General Dufour's legacy. He was one of the Henry Dunant's "Committee of the Five".

m_mueller4• 5 years ago

Having a person at the helm who actually experienced the horrors of industrial warfare was a lucky break I guess. Maybe Swiss overall had enough memories and experience with severe poverty and warfare to be motivated for a change.

Btw. in many ways the US was a model for the new Swiss Republic as the Swiss must have felt very close to the American independence movement, having had a similar history dealing with foreign powers. It's kind of a shame that this closeness faded in the 20th century, but in its basic political setup Switzerland still is a mini-US in Europe, just with the major addition of direct democracy - something in turn that I'd hope the US could adopt in order to bring new life into its political system.

KennyBlanken• 5 years ago

Astonishingly polite indeed, compared to them claiming neutrality in WW2, yet:

- shooting dead American soldiers they found inside Switzerland who had escaped from German POW camps

- abusing banking privacy laws to seize bank accounts from murdered Jews (who had been using Swiss banks for a number of years because they saw the writing on the wall), refusing to grant access to surviving relatives

- happily accepting Nazi gold, knowing much of which was melted down jewelry and dental fillings collected from the ashes of human incinerators.

Post WW2, Switzerland was required to return twelve percent of the gold they accepted from the Nazis.

ggm3• 5 years ago

Yes, this is insufficiently discussed, as is the sweden/rare-earths issues. Not ALL POWs were shot, but it wasn't all drinks on the balcony of the sanitorium until 1945

bedobi3• 5 years ago

Oh man, the Swedes stubbornly taking pride in being "neutral" really grinds my gears

first of all, given how much Sweden helped the nazis, including literally transporting nazi troops to invade neighboring countries, and providing resources etc, they can hardly be called neutral,

second, in a conflict of *literal nazis* vs everyone else, being neutral is nothing to be proud of - any sane person can see that

but Sweden's education system very successfully brainwashes the population into eating that nonsense up, hook line and sinker

mahkeiro• 5 years ago

Insufficiently discussed? Please read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergier_commission Their final report is 11000 page long…

herbst3• 5 years ago

About #2 our banking privacy is so deeply rooted. That nobody gets access to your wealth in case you die. Not sure if that was against Jews back then.

But you still need to explicitly allow a third party access to your account in case something bad happens to you.

Not exactly sure about #1 but Americans haven't been all welcome after they bombed down so many cultural heritages including civils in surrounding countries. It's that small part the winner decided to net get into history.

lwkl• 5 years ago

shooting dead American soldiers they found inside Switzerland who had escaped from German POW camps

Prisoners of war were treated really bad in Switzerland. Wikipedia has detailed article about the Wauwilermoss internment camp [1] and links to additional literature. There was a SRF Dok report on this but sadly it's no longer available.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wauwilermoos_internment_camp

saiya-jin• 5 years ago

Yes I keep hearing these lies and half-truths being repeated by same type of people who don't bother to actually check history, which is never further than few clicks away. They always claim the same, I heard these arguments countless times.

KennyBlanken doesn't understand a thing about swiss banking secrecy rights. They were invented much earlier than world wars, aimed to provide swiss citizens privacy that was unmatched anywhere else in the world. That situation evolved and those accounts were used by nazis and jews in a way that wasn't expected (tons of money but often nobody to claim them) doesn't remove the fact tons of people wanting privacy are using similar approach these days all around the world.

Third point is a blatant lie too - when gold was purchased nobody knew about concentration camps which were at its height at last years of the war. The concept of being neutral is so foreign to people who are on the other side they apparently can't comprehend that neutral country is doing business with both sides.

Point 1 - do you have some reference? There were US military personnel interned ie when their bombers which presumably by mistake (but not always) killed scores of swiss civilians in border cities by bombing, and then crashed in Swiss territory. Neutral behavior at its best.

There is not a single country that did only moral things during WWII, everybody fucked up one way or the other. They accepted tons of jews fleeing nazis even after it was clear that country completely surrounded by nazis can't feed itself. At one point they stopped but canton Geneva continued regardless of federal decision. That's what I call humanity.

They helped allies in Italy by giving them full access to piece of italian land called Campione d'Italia in canton Ticino in south, which is completely surrounded by Swiss territory. Allies, mainly US waged quite a few secret operations from there. I agree not very neutral behavior in this case.

Hitler had plan for invading Switzerland after they conquer east, but was very much aware that every adult male had military training up to date and his service rifle at home. They expected strong resistance since Swiss fiercely guarded their sovereignty, combined with uneasy terrain in southern/western parts even mighty Wehrmacht went rather to more predictable fights.

misja111• 5 years ago

shooting dead American soldiers they found inside Switzerland who had escaped from German POW camps

Do you have a source? I can't find anything about that on the Internet.

savingsPossible• 5 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland_during_the_World_W...

Paints a more neutral picture. They shot both nazis and alies, and had to occasionally fight to keep out of the conflict

For example:

Nazi Germany repeatedly violated Swiss airspace. During the Battle of France, German aircraft violated Swiss airspace at least 197 times.[17] In several air incidents, the Swiss shot down 11 Luftwaffe aircraft between 10 May 1940 and 17 June 1940, while suffering the loss of three of their own aircraft.[17] Germany protested diplomatically on 5 June 1940 and with a second note on 19 June 1940 which contained explicit threats. Hitler was especially furious when he saw that German equipment was used to shoot down German pilots. He said they would respond "in another manner".[17] On 20 June 1940, the Swiss air force was ordered to stop intercepting planes violating Swiss airspace. Swiss fighters began instead to force intruding aircraft to land at Swiss airfields. Anti-aircraft units still operated. Later, Hitler and Hermann Göring sent saboteurs to destroy Swiss airfields but they were captured by Swiss troops before they could cause any damage.[18] Skirmishes between German and Swiss troops took place on the northern border of Switzerland throughout the war.

Karlsonn7• 5 years ago

Half the "neutral" or "Defeated" countries during WW2 were just too shy to admit they were pro-German. The popularity of far right movements in these countries today is a good indicator of their allegiance back then

ccakes• 5 years ago

There has been a similarly polite disagreement about land between Canada and Denmark, however from the Wikipedia page it looks to have been resolved as of ~2005

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisky_War

goodcanadian• 5 years ago

Not resolved, but

Both countries agreed on a process in 2005 to resolve the issue.

AFAICT, nothing has really changed since then.

Another example that might interest you:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machias_Seal_Island

aunty_helen• 5 years ago

Yet, leave it to the Swiss (those masters of neutrality) to give us at least one example of a truly civil war

The same Swiss that banned their citizens from joining mercenary armies after two predominantly Swiss mercenary armies slaughtered each other.

nix232• 5 years ago

Just hope the pope (pun intended) never attacks us.

magnuspaaske• 5 years ago

Fascinating. Do you have a link so we can read more about the mercenary fiasco?

dgb23• 5 years ago

Another example of the Swiss being polite and avoiding bloodshed during extreme conflict was the general strike of 1918.

It lasted two days but the strike leaders capitulated after being threatened by the Swiss military. It could have ended rather brutally.

After the strike there was a phase of reforms for workers and democratic rights. It was understood that there had to be good faith negotiation with unions from there on.

lukasfischer2• 5 years ago

Very interesting article for me. I actually grew up in Gisikon (where the battle of Gisikon took place) and my parents still live there. Altought the battle of Gisikon was somewhat a key event in the formation of the modern swiss state (which was founded in 1848), the battle was not a topic in our school curriculum. One funny thing: There is one small remembering-stone right next to the town hall which nobody knows what it’s all about…

stavros4• 5 years ago

Not very on-topic, but I find the notion of a forgotten remembering stone hilarious.

lukasfischer2• 5 years ago

Astonishingly polite remembering :D

Synaesthesia• 5 years ago

In contrast to most European wars which were save gully barbarous in their conduct and ignored human life.

jamisteven• 5 years ago

Having lived here for the past 3 years I would say that this was less about being polite and more about avoiding human interaction, which is something I find quite common in Swiss culture even today. Highly introverted and wanting to stick to ones self is the norm here. Villages so quiet you could hear a mouse fart.

ToolsDevler• 5 years ago

You lived somewhere and are speaking for the whole country... I live in Zurich (the city) since 2015 (and my wife since 2018) and we have the opposite experience. Small talks with strangers and totally open converations with swiss people if you want. But you have to be open for it. If you are an introvert yourself, people mostly just respect that and cut conversation to a minimum.

And yes, Im speaking mostly for Zurich City as part of Switzerland, not Switzerland as a whole.

hogrider• 5 years ago

If you liked this you should know about endemic warfare and ritualistic warfare, in the most civil examples it amounted to a very intense game apparently where they'd just raid for stuff or women without killing each other. Sicilian decade long vendeta feuds are something like endemic warfare.

IMAYousaf• 4 years ago

I like the characterization so much of a "polite armed conflict". Seems almost cartoonish.

Switzerland’s astonishingly polite armed conflict of 1847 (2019)

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