How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)

https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20181016-how-the-finnish-survive-without-small-talk

by rsecora • 5 years ago

65 48 5 years ago

jleyank• 5 years ago

This explains Linus, as all I’ve heard is that he’s very reserved. So much so it’s hard for people to understand where he stands on issues…

/s for the newbies.

balsam• 5 years ago

Linus is a Swedish-Finn. Don’t know if that explains anything.

enra• 5 years ago

He is still a Finnish native who was born/lives in Finland but speaks Swedish as their native language. So he did grew up in the Finnish cultural environment

cardiffspaceman• 5 years ago

Passionately-held opinions do not match my definition of small talk, but there are sufficient remaining counterfactuals that there is still humor in this remark, and the /s should stand.

Agingcoder• 5 years ago

To some extent, 'what do you want' at the coffee shop without any small talk around is essentially being very blunt.

This would match Linus, no?

lenkite• 5 years ago

"as all I’ve heard is that he’s very reserved."

Just ask his opinion on C++ and the ice will not just be broken - it will turn into a volcano.

pbalau2• 5 years ago

If you’re a foreigner, congratulations – you’re probably the loudest person on their often (voluntarily) silent public transport.

I have this feeling that this is not a Finish thing, but a rest-of-the-world-apart-US, thing. In my ~40 years spent in Romania and now UK, I rarely saw people engaging strangers on public transport, let alone doing it loudly.

Ekaros2• 5 years ago

As they say in Finland. If someone talks to you in public transport they are either A) Drunk, B) Crazy, C) Outlander...

jeramey2• 5 years ago

Seems true! The longest amount time I ever engaged with anyone on public transit was when I was sitting near a couple of fellows who had decided that polishing off a full case of long drink on the train ride north was a good idea. Thankfully, both were the I-love-you-man type versus the angry drunk type, especially since they wanted to talk about Trump-era politics once they figured out one of my companions and I were Americans.

My Belgian companion wisely kept his damn mouth shut the whole time.

vidarh3• 5 years ago

I live in London, and you can tell the distance from London by how willing people are to give you eye contact or talk. I remember the sheer shock first time I traveled to Isle of Wight. First people had noticeably more open body language as we got further out, and once we got onto the train after the ferry over a stranger spoke to us.

It felt bizarre.

Now if you're travelling towards another city in the UK chances are you won't get nearly as dramatic an effect.

Dense urban areas tends to have people withdrawing into a cocoon even many places where people are usually friendlier.

slyall• 5 years ago

Northerner terrifies Londoners by saying "Hello": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT0ay9u1gg4

pbalau2• 5 years ago

Well, if I am going somewhere and this IS the reason you are going to find me in a means of public transport, I really don't feel the need to entertain you. And the tube is mostly loud, so no reasonable way to have a conversation.

If we are in a pub, by all means, let's chat. I might even buy you the drinks for the rest of the night.

There is time for chatting and there is time for minding your <beep> mind. And I think I should get my British passport simply for believing and living by this idea.

oatlgr• 5 years ago

An Isle of Wight’er here. We’re a welcoming bunch and when myself and my family travel to the North Island it does take a little adjustment in terms of adjusting to things such as body language and resisting the urge to speak with random people!

tapland• 5 years ago

People travel in groups and talk all the time. But you can hear American tourists or exchange students (mostly Erasmus) clearly across the platform on Stockholms metro stations.

It's not about likelyhood of talking, but how loud you speak. I feel like my inlaws (from the US) are constantly shouting.

european321• 5 years ago

As a Finn, working at an U.S. company, small talk is something I really struggled with and still don't fully understand. The people I interact with it seems like we have found sort of a middle ground, where people obviously still ask "How are you?", but people still feel comfortable to answer "Not so well, XYZ happened". Maybe I'm naive but I feel like that helps prevent issues from getting too big and offers a safe space to share how you feel and get compassion from your peers.

clon• 5 years ago

As an Estonian, I can relate to this. "How are you" and similar drivel gets me every time and borderline drives me mad.

There is a brilliant comic called Finnish Nightmares that covers many situations like this. For anyone not Finnish (or Estonian) it is probably an inside joke.

http://finnishnightmares.blogspot.com

tubs• 5 years ago

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vidarh3• 5 years ago

As a Norwegian who finds most Norwegians too chatty, my first experience with Americans saying "how are you?" as a greeting rather than a question still haunts me 15 years later.

Also explains why I enjoyed my (so far only) trip to Estonia so much.

vintermann• 5 years ago

The top comic is a bit odd, though? I know a lot of wonderful choral music from Finland (more than from most countries!) so they can't all be afraid of singing in public.

hazza_n_dazza2• 5 years ago

In my experience a lot of tech people can't do smalltalk, so it might go down well

Hokusai• 5 years ago

I work with Estonians, silence is their way. Even Swedish colleges will say something given a long enough pause. Not the Estonians. I tried longer and longer pauses after asking if there are any question. I found the point that, one out of four times, someone will say 'No. There are no questions'. It feels like a really very long pause.

I'm Spanish, in my culture people will interrupt you mid sentence if they have something to say.

I just need to change expectations like I change languages. It's not a problem but it requires to think about your audience culture. They are just different.

I like the article and how shares this idiosyncrasy. I wish it talked about it as something normal, instead of something 'abnormal'. But it makes sense that it takes the British perspective.

jeramey2• 5 years ago

I'm am American who works for a Finland-based employer which has given me a few opportunities to travel there. My experience suggests this is changing a bit generationally as I've generally found it pretty easy to have brief, friendly conversations with younger (say, under 35 or so) people at least in the Helsinki-Espoo areas.

The quiet public places and public transport do make my introverted heart gleeful, though. I also reckon that a group of German tourists can give Americans a run for their money in the boisterousness department. :)

miika• 5 years ago

As a Finn I think that when people are not sure what to say.. but they feel like they should say something, then small talk is great.

Maybe we Finns think too much and say something only when we’re sure what to say, so it might be very compact, well thought package of information. Something like: “Sure. Good Bye.”

We also seem to share some bad drunken behavior and dark humor with English lads.

jamiek88• 5 years ago

We also seem to share some bad drunken behavior and dark humor with English lads.

I’ve often thought that too.

There’s a reason the Brits love Kimi Raikkonen!

NikolaeVarius• 5 years ago

No small talk is amazing. I went to a eastern european resteraunt. Waiters just said "what do you want" then after silently clearing our plates "check is here".

Amazing prompt service and no talking. Gave 30% to him

fifilura2• 5 years ago

Good for him! That was probably way too much, tip is included in the bill in Europe.

countername• 5 years ago

Tip is not included in the bill in Europe, I can tell it's not in Germany

petre• 5 years ago

No it's not. Maybe in Hungary but not all the time. Do check your bill for a service entry, which is typically 10%.

nikonyrh• 5 years ago

There is a joke that COVID mandated 2 meter gaps between people, which is way less than what we are used to.

hazza_n_dazza2• 5 years ago

haha

contingencies• 5 years ago

one of their national sayings is ‘Silence is gold, talking is silver’.

Taken from Arabic where it is evidenced since the 9th century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_is_silver,_silence_is_g...

zwaps3• 5 years ago

I think we have have a folk song about this saying. Not Finnish...

IntrepidWorm• 5 years ago

Indeed. It goes:

" ... "

Mister_X• 5 years ago

The small US town I live in has many Finns and Norwegians who arrived here in the mid/late 1800's to work in the logging industry.

When I got here 30 years ago it was my first experience "interacting" with Finns and I always thought it was a problem with me (3rd gen Californian).

Thankfully, a long time local Norwegian friend told me a joke that cleared it all up.

Q: "How can you tell when a Finn is an extrovert?"

A: "They stare at your shoes instead of their own."

I asked my 3rd gen Finnish acquaintances about that, and they heartily agreed.

zwaps3• 5 years ago

If they arrived in the 1800's, would they not be dead by now?

culopatin• 5 years ago

Hard to tell if they are dead or just quiet so they just let them be.

hypertele-Xii• 5 years ago

My pet theory is that Finns don't talk much because when it's freezing cold, opening your mouth to speak leaks warmth.

Stark contrast to summer park drinking. The noise of everybody talking is ear-splitting.

lbrito• 5 years ago

There's a difference between small talk and being polite.

As a Brazilian I was shocked at how polite people were abroad with pleases and thank yous. In Brazil I'm asked bluntly "what is the time?" by strangers on the street that just turn away after I answer. That is just rudeness, not directness.

How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)

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