Australia, the US and UK to announce landmark new defence pact

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/ministers-granted-border-exemptions-to-attend-urgent-meeting-in-canberra-20210915-p58rzn.html

by robbiep • 5 years ago

46 41 5 years ago

smh.com.au

irrational• 5 years ago

the US would help Australia develop a nuclear submarine capability

I wonder what help means? Is the US building the subs and turning them over to Australia, are they giving them plans and specs so they can build them themselves, or something in between?

seanalltogether• 5 years ago

Probably - "We'll allow you to buy 20 billion worth of submarines from our contractors if you guarantee our purchase of 20 billion worth of raw mining materials"

jeeeb• 5 years ago

If historical Australian submarine deals are anything to go by construction work will be split between Australia and the US.

I think it’s safe to assume Australia will want to develop a full maintenance capability in Australia, which realistically means developing a manufacturing capability.

hollerith• 5 years ago

The US has been providing similar help to the UK since the 1960s. There, the US provided the missles (first Polaris, then Trident) and their launch tubes, while the UK built their own warheads and subs though I seem to recall the US's providing information (obtained from nuclear tests IIRC) important for warhead design and maybe nuclear material (i.e., plutonium).

Throwawayaerlei• 5 years ago

We currently replenish the tritium used to boost the primaries of their nukes.

robbiep• 5 years ago

Another SMH article mentions Scomo said they intend to build them in Adelaide

gghhzzgghhzz3• 5 years ago

Another scam to funnel public money to US arms manufacturers

dgs_sgd• 5 years ago

Probably, but do you think it’s at least in part a legitimate response to the Chinese threat?

Lammy3• 5 years ago

I bet China says all the same things about us to also justify building things that spy and kill.

gumby3• 5 years ago

Honestly what actual Chinese threat?

gghhzzgghhzz3• 5 years ago

There's always a new threat. Communism around the globe, middle eastern dictators, Islamic terrorism, Russia now China. All very convenient. "Every War in the past 50 Years is a Result of Media Lies" Jullian Assange

If Australia are so concerned about China then stop selling them minerals, stop buying their products etc.

refurb3• 5 years ago

What’s the alternative you’re suggesting? Just roll over to China’s demands?

gghhzzgghhzz3• 5 years ago

I'm saying you are being fed these stories.. just as we are always fed stories to manufacture consent

e.g. wouldn't have made the news a few years ago. suddenly the Japanese defence minister is being interviewed on CNN. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/15/asia/japan-defense-minist...

If countries are genuinely concerned about China, then start to disengage commercially with them. Stop buying stuff from them, invest in production of alternative sources for white goods and electronics and cars and plastic stuff. Stop selling them Iron ore and stop encouraging them to invest in your country.

Also start to positively engage with the rest of the developing world. Not by handcuffing them with monetary deals from the IMF and world bank, but with genuine selfless goodwill and repatriation to help them develop in sustainable ways.

locusm• 5 years ago

Unlikely this would have happened had it not been for the perceived Chinese threat.

AnotherGoodName• 5 years ago

A gauge of the reactions in /r/australia show strong support from the left and right wings in Australia. It's rare to see such agreement.

Also 12 of them is a sizable fleet. Larger than the UK or French nuclear sub fleets.

So yes. It's China. Particularly China under Xi Jinping.

dirtyid• 5 years ago

These are replacing the 12 subs ordered from France, itself replacing 6 current Collins class due for replacement in the early 2030s. The french contract was missing deadlines, and there is even less chance these boats will be on schedule considering they're nukes. So total 6 extra hulls, typically 1/3 will be deployed while others train or maintain. Does extra presence of 2 subs dramatically affect PRC strategic planning in the 2040s/50s. Maybe, but not that much.

pretendgeneer• 5 years ago

Can't believe we'll get Nuclear Subs but not Nuclear power to combat the actual looming threat of climate change.

tbihl• 5 years ago

No one gets nuclear power, including the people with the subs. We're all phasing it out, out of a shared understanding that the political fight is worse than the climate and other impacts of just letting it die.

nickhalfasleep• 5 years ago

Or that nobody can make it affordable compared to other clean energy solutions.

bassman9000• 5 years ago

Power requirements on a sub vs a civilian power plant are on a different scale. A vessel reactor is small enough it easily contained and shielded, by comparison. You get free cooling. And it doesn't have to be cost effective.

I'd like more civilian reactors too. But scaling is an issue.

DaveExeter2• 5 years ago

AUKUS?

Is there no better branding then...AUKUS?

Lammy3• 5 years ago

I wonder how the nuclear submarine stuff will affect ANZUS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZUS

"New Zealand was suspended from ANZUS in 1986 as it initiated a nuclear-free zone in its territorial waters; in late 2012 New Zealand lifted a ban on visits by United States warships leading to a thawing in tensions. New Zealand maintains a nuclear-free zone as part of its foreign policy and is partially suspended from ANZUS, as the United States maintains an ambiguous policy whether or not the warships carry nuclear weapons and operates numerous nuclear-powered aircraft carriers and submarines; however New Zealand resumed key areas of the ANZUS treaty in 2007."

gumby3• 5 years ago

Guess no nuke subs making port of call across the Tasman sea.

DaveExeter2• 5 years ago

New Zealand is anti-nuke? You'd think they would be pro-nuke!

Sometimes a small country needs a big equalizer. For example...North Korea.

excalibur• 5 years ago

Maybe we can get Malaysia involved, then we can call it MABUS.

stubish• 5 years ago

We should rebrand it USUKA

gumby3• 5 years ago

Thank you SMH for you choice of photos.

Australia, the US and UK to announce landmark new defence pact

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