Hacker News Fires Steve Yegge

http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2011/07/hacker-news-fires-steve-yegge.html

by DanielRibeiro • 15 years ago

340 91 15 years ago

steve-yegge.blogspot.com

tomfakes• 15 years ago

Here's the money quote:

  I'm officially quitting that job on national TV

The use of the word 'job' there implies The Job, not 'the job on the project', hence the overall confusion - people taking the words as said, not as meant

Note: Did HN just screw up this same posting?

rsanheim• 15 years ago

Agreed, interesting that Yegge stresses project in his post when he clearly says job in the video.

jshen4• 15 years ago

He said it more than once, and clearly said project one of those times. He also gave context that made it quite clear he was talking about the project.

chegra• 15 years ago

Could have sworn I saw this at no.1 with 44points in 12 minutes with about 7 comments. And there was a guy requesting a feature saying he hates to be that guy.

Edit: Oh it died: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2813976

DanielRibeiro2• 15 years ago

Guess it got flagged quite fast because of the title. Maybe I should change it to give more the spirit of the post.

Edit: hope it is better now.

raldi• 15 years ago

What did it say initially?

madmaze• 15 years ago

here is his talk, very inspiring

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKmQW_Nkfk8

nikcub• 15 years ago

interesting - but I didn't totally buy into it. new web communication tools are helping to bring down governments and giving people new freedoms

it is like telling alexander graham bell to not waste his time on the telephone since people are just going to use it to spread gossip and rumor

chc• 15 years ago

But the thing is, a lot of these "new Web communication tools" are "new" only in the sense that they aren't very old, not in the more important sense that they're novel in a useful way.

majmun2• 15 years ago

But it would be so convinient for Google if they have less competition working in communication tools. and more working on projects that Google is not working on. yes longevity of life is important but quality is also important.

bretthoerner3• 15 years ago

So basically his inspirational talk turned into "I was pulled over to the Google Plus team, but I said never mind and went back to working on developer tools"?

Kind of a let down. :(

btrask• 15 years ago

It shouldn't matter what Steve Yegge decides to work on. You can still start working on big, important problems if you want to.

bretthoerner3• 15 years ago

It doesn't, but you can't help but feel his excitement during the talk ... and yet ...

pnathan2• 15 years ago

Developer tools are kind of a big deal.

bartonfink2• 15 years ago

Not really in the sense he was talking about. He literally stood up at a major conference and urged the development community to go learn bioinformatics and work on the cure for cancer. No developer tool will ever come close to the amount of positive impact on the world that a cure for cancer would.

bretthoerner3• 15 years ago

Did you watch his talk?

michaelochurch2• 15 years ago

It depends. I feel like a lot of dev. tools compensate for illnesses in software engineering that should be cured in a way that doesn't depend on one's environment.

For example, apparently Java doesn't totally suck if one uses the appropriate tools and environment. But Ocaml and Haskell are great regardless of whether one uses vi, emacs, or whatever else. Ocaml, for example, has this great static analysis tool far more powerful than all but the most premium SA tools for C++ and Java-- the compiler.

jsavimbi2• 15 years ago

Regardless of what Steve does in his professional life, I, for one, am going to stop procrastinating on all of those R links I've been saving up on Evernote and get down to some science.

david927• 15 years ago

And share those links with the rest of us!

http://digitalauteur.wikispaces.com

jsavimbi2• 15 years ago

I follow http://www.r-bloggers.com/ but hopefully I'll be able to contribute something in the future.

dougws• 15 years ago

I'm surprised Stevey didn't mention that this is not the first time something like this has happened: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007/12/boring-stevey-status... .

suyash• 15 years ago

Source code can be turned in the form of wikipedia information, how awesome that would be, reading and understanding bad code or not properly documented or written code is one hard problem in the industry that needs a really good solution. Good luck Steve.

vailripper• 15 years ago

He mentions how broken the typical interview process is, something I hear repeated frequently. I'm curious what you guys think the "ideal" interview process would look like?

daleharvey• 15 years ago

it looks awfully like "hey, we need x and y done, I (worked with you before / was recommended by a friend I trust / follow your open source contributions / blog) and think you would be a good fit, interested?

riprock2• 15 years ago

I think a big reason why most people go with a career and degree in software engineering as opposed to bioinformatics is because of a bigger job market, a higher salary potential, and a lower commitment to achieve the goal (computer science degree as a 4 or 6 year degree, vs a mandatory 8+ year degree in bioinformatics.) Unless these things change, bioinformatics will remain unappealing to top google engineers who are paid to scale cat pictures at salaries like 250k+.

To add one more thing, perl is huge in the bioinformatics community, which would never win a popularity contest among software developers.

sciurus• 15 years ago

I expect that most universities have a core curriculum that requires CS majors to take other science courses. Make those courses genetics and biochemistry and a CS undergraduate can probably get into a 2-year masters program for bioinformatics.

riprock2• 15 years ago

I might get some backlash for this, but while you can apply for some bioinformatics jobs with a MS, PhD is the norm not the exception for biology-related fields. Without a PhD, you won't get very far career-wise.

brown9-22• 15 years ago

It must be a truly great place to work if the sentences "I quit this project" and "I quit this company" don't end up with the same result.

How many companies let the employee choose to stop working on a project they are assigned to?

orangecat• 15 years ago

Not only that, but trash the project in public.

nostrademons2• 15 years ago

Is this not common in large companies that do lots of things?

It seems like a terrible waste if the only way to get off a bad project is to quit the company.

URSpider94• 15 years ago

Not that common.

Most companies like to think that they don't have any "bad" projects; if they did, they would cancel them. And, they're afraid that employees will confuse "hard" projects with "bad" projects, and try to flee the hard projects, which are often business-critical.

Google is smart enough to realize that employees can often identify bad (and good) projects before the management does, and lets them vote with their feet.

sbhat7• 15 years ago

My friend used to work for a large multi-national. In his company, each of the departments were like companies in itself. The formalities for quitting the job and changing departments were the same. So most of the time the only way to get off a bad project was to quit the company.

notatoad• 15 years ago

perhaps a more pertinent question would be "how many companies would let Steve Yegge choose to stop working on the project he's assigned to?"

freedom like that is earned, and i'm sure not everybody at google has the same status he does.

enneff• 15 years ago

Engineers at Google are not hired for specific projects. You're appraised as a good engineer, therefore we want you at Google. If you're not happy doing what you're doing, we'd like to find something you will be happy doing. But that doesn't mean you can just chop and change projects at will. It's considered pretty uncool to just quit a project abruptly without making the appropriate arrangements first. You've got to leave your work in a good state so that your teammates and successors can pick up where you left off.

I don't know anything about Steve's situation, but I would assume he did these things.

munificent• 15 years ago

I'm pretty low on the Google totem pole and I managed to get off a project that wanted me dearly because it didn't interest me.

cemery• 15 years ago

At least at Amazon you are free to change projects after a year.

Any large tech company is probably so in need of coders that the idea of having to let one go because they were unhappy with what they were currently doing is repugnant.

simplekoala2• 15 years ago

Is this some sort of joke? This is usually a company wide policy at any large software company. Amazon is full of in-competent middle managers. Amazon as a company has no respect for software engineers and their quality of life. They are not in the same league as Google! No comparison. No self-respecting engineer lasts at Amazon for more than a few years. It is not a company where engineers go and build careers like Google, and heck even Microsoft. They have great top level leadership, and know how to suck blood and life out of their developers. That's about it.

onemoreact• 15 years ago

That seems fairly normal in the consulting world. Granted we are expected to create a transition plan and only given a few months to find a new assignment but it's not that uncommon.

jrockway3• 15 years ago

All of them?

There is a massive shortage of programmers in the market. Hiring a programmer costs a big company somewhere between $30,000 and $50,000. If you leave, that's half your salary down the toile, and they don't have anyone to do your work while they look for another programmer. This is a huge loss for them and something to be avoided. So if they can just swap two people's projects... done! It's cheaper!

lcargill99• 15 years ago

Hiring a programmer? $50,000.00 . Getting rid of one that doesn't work for cultural reasons? Priceless.

ddw• 15 years ago

I'm not trying to be crass, I really don't know: what does he mean by Google is "forcing governments to be more open, forcing corporations to play more fairly"? I'm racking my head on how this could be true as I would really like it to believe it.

pnathan2• 15 years ago

Basically, high-quality search and comprehensive indexing means its hard to sweep things under the rug: once the data gets out onto the net, it tends to stay there. Google's played a large part in that.

swah• 15 years ago

Folks that are good at making money to invest in folks solving big problems. I don't get it.

fedd• 15 years ago

with this headline the magical voice-over told me he was fired from hacker news.

mannicken• 15 years ago

I interviewed at a Google campus in Kirkland. Unimpressed. Overrated madly, in my opinion. I expected a lot, a lot better campus, sorry. The buildings were boring and I couldn't find the right one because NONE OF THEM have a visible building number.

There is no map of the campus (hell, even community colleges have maps). The parking didn't have cover so after staying under hot sun, my car became extremely hot.

Unpleasant experience to say the least. People were cool, though.

I just had a much better feeling from Microsoft campus than Google's campus.

DaveMebs• 15 years ago

While it is a fair point, you have to keep in ming you are comparing Microsoft's main campus with a secondary Google campus.

nostrademons2• 15 years ago

Yeah, the secondary campuses (except, I've heard, for Zurich and Moscow...Pittsburgh is pretty cool too) are nowhere near as nice as the headquarters. Many of them don't even serve dinner.

vl• 15 years ago

Not to be the nitpicker, but since I work at this very campus (and worked at main MS campus for 8 years) I'll share my opinion.

In all essentials this campus is light years ahead of MS. From the public WiFi for Androids & iPhones, to on-campus gym, floor plan maps on every corner, available conference rooms with VC equipment, laptop power bricks in conference rooms, espresso machines, actually drinkable tea, tech support staff on site and godzillion other tiny details it's easier to work on this campus in so many aspects each and every work day.

Since there are only three buildings next to each other is seems not much effort went into inter-building navigational aids (doors are labeled, but clearly it's not enough), may be we can do better. Visitor parking has no cover on MS campus as well, it's pretty much common to have it this way.

And, btw, after having a chance to compare, I think our cafe is better than most of MTV cafes.

senderista• 15 years ago

I worked at the MS main campus almost 8 years and now work in downtown Seattle (Pioneer Square). I will take a vibrant, walkable urban setting with great, cheap food everywhere over any number of silly amenities in a sterile campus environment.

calibraxis• 15 years ago

"Google's interview process -- what's the word I'm looking for here -- ah yes, their process sucks at letting in all the qualified people. They're trying to get better at it, but it's not really Google's fault so much as the fault of interviewers who insist that you're not qualified to work there unless you are exactly like them. Of course, there are interviewers like that wherever you go."

I imagine that's one of the big problems that females, older people and others must face. If you're not like them (or everyone's stereotype of a qualified person), you'll have a harder time getting in. Not to mention enjoying your stay, once you're in.

(Maybe you're in a workplace that's so desperate for a little diversity that it's actually easier for non-stereotypes to get in. But will your coworkers act respectfully? I know that the guys at mine let loose putdowns about females, even with females in the room. They don't even realize they're putting females down.)

microarchitect• 15 years ago

Exactly and it's the same at hacker news. Every time we see an article about sexism in computer science, someone will show up saying that: (1) hackers are the most egalitarian group that ever walked the face of the earth and (2) they've never seen any discrimination happen. The implication here is that sexism doesn't exist in computer science.

I have seen my colleague tell (ostensibly being funny) a female co-worker that she was hired because of her looks. I've also seen people joke about interviewing attractive women. These might seem innocuous to privileged males but they definitely contribute to making the workplace worse for women and so are IMHO completely unacceptable.

These are just two small issues - and I've heard a lot worse, but try and tell someone like DHH that we have a problem. He'll rant about how being edgy is cool and that being edgy requires us to make these tasteless "jokes".

spudlyo• 15 years ago

Female humans are often referred to as women.

dstein• 15 years ago

This is more like "Steve Yegge discovers the power of linkbait".

kodisha• 15 years ago

Hi all,

I am original poster of "Steve Yegge quits Google in the middle of his speech".

Now I get to brag around the office that Steve Yegge rage-posted because of me ^_^

I am really sorry if I caused some trouble, but I was just interpreting things as i heard them, he really did say "... quitting that JOB..."

I would like to say that I totally agree with Steve. But unlike him I can't afford to quit my "job", but what I can afford is to setup my PS3 and my desktop machines to work on folding@home and World Community Grid whenever they are idle.

Best, Dragan.

Hacker News Fires Steve Yegge

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