Fornicating Under Consent of King

https://literaryreview.co.uk/fornicating-under-consent-of-king

by pepys • 5 years ago

81 81 5 years ago

literaryreview.co.uk

the word whose usage is considered so offensive that it has caused the decline of its unfortunate near-homophone ‘niggardly’

That's not exactly a unique phenomenon. For example, it's how "rabbit" replaced "coney".

paleotrope• 5 years ago

Which is funny because coney used to be pronounced more like cunny and was deliberately pronounced coney to get away from the vulgar associations.

thaumasiotes5• 5 years ago

coney used to be pronounced more like cunny

That's still the only pronunciation I know. Rhymes with, and orthographically identical to, "money". (And "honey".)

JasonFruit• 5 years ago

I thought it was still pronounced that way, which may account for certain odd looks directed at me.

srean2• 5 years ago

Help out a non English speaker if you can. What vulgar associations ?

EDIT: Thanks, all who responded. I wouldn't have made the connection although I am quite familiar with the 'vulgar' word in question. The phonetic similarity sounds farfetched to me, one ends with a hard consonant, the other with a vowel sound.

sdrothrock• 5 years ago

The other pronunciation diversion I think of is how "teat" is "tit" but is now pronounced "teet".

rusk4• 5 years ago

Interesting maybe that Coinín (sp?) is rabbit in modern Irish/Gaeilge and is pronounced in the former manner. Presumably it has some indo European roots, that didn’t spread into common English usage.

overkalix• 5 years ago

My 2c as a catalan speaker. Apparently cunt is related to the latin "cunnus" (wedge). We also have a vulgar word related to cunnus for vagina, "cony". Its use is not as offensive as cunt, but it is up there with "puta" (whore) as the worst things you could say to a woman. However "cony" is also used in a sexual context: "Et vull menjar el cony" could be translated to "I want to eat your pussy".

Of course we have other obscene words for vagina. One of them is "conill" (rabbit), which is apparently related to "cunniculus" (burrow). The analogy between the action of the animal when hiding and the sexual act seems clear, but however this one is almost exclusively used in descriptive contexts: "L'hi he vist el conill", "I've seen her pussy".

"Conill" is also used more innocently. A young girl (~4yo) who is playing and running around naked could be affectionately called by female relatives "conillet". "Ai el conillet!" as in "oh, the little rabbit!". The goal here, I believe, seems to be not really shaming her to get dressed, but to make her aware that she is naked.

The animal analogy (?) would be similar to that of beaver, I suppose. But of course no mother would call her naked girl little beaver.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it fascinating how languages converge and diverge, and how we find hilarious and imaginative ways to describe the world around us.

jdavis703• 5 years ago

In Spanish conejo (rhymes with coney) is rabbit. Interesting how we’re still slowly loosing cognates from our shared latin roots.

Edit: I may be assuming an incorrect pronunciation of coney. Even as a native speaker English sucks.

lostcolony• 5 years ago

You are; coney in English generally has a long e sound at the end (like saying the letter 'e'), not a long a sound (like saying the letter 'a'), so it wouldn't be the same or rhyme with the first two syllables of conejo (which has the long a sound in the second syllable).

Tangent, but in line with what others have commented, American English tends to pronounce the first syllable with a long o (like saying the letter 'o'), whereas British tends to pronounce it with a long oo sound (like the vowel sound in the the word 'food'). I've never heard it pronounced with a short 'u' sound (an 'uh' sound), but others intimated they either have, or have heard it pronounced close to it, which is interesting.

cryptonector• 5 years ago

https://www.spanishdict.com/translate/conejo

radarsat1• 5 years ago

Even in Dutch they use the word konijn, I actually had no idea that "coney" was an English cognate for that word until reading this thread, I love learning these associations as making connections like this really helps in learning new languages.

As an aside, Spain itself was named after rabbits, which I find hilarious: http://www.ctspanish.com/rabbits.htm

Veen2• 5 years ago

It's also why (among other reasons) the UK peerage doesn't have "Counts." It uses the old Anglo-Saxon "Earl" for county-level peers even though the Norman system largely displaced the Anglo-Saxon system after the conquest. Curiously though, the wives of earls are countesses.

bregma• 5 years ago

The jarls still held a lot of land, especially in the north, even after the southern kingdoms changed hands. Medieval feudalism was never a simple one-party dictatorship. Balance of local power probably has more to do with the propagation of nomenclature than simply having a new guy in a castle several days' journey away from your village.

ben_w• 5 years ago

The one that gets to me is that the anglosphere is still calling a fairly common crop [cooking product] “rapeseed [oil]”.

And why is that etymologically connected to the latin for ‘turnip’? This seems as strange now as the fact “mincemeat” (no space) in mince pies is vegetarian (the answer: because “meat” used to mean any food not just animal flesh, but it’s still strange to see that today).

Bjartr• 5 years ago

Rapeseed oil is usually referred to as canola oil these days.

flir2• 5 years ago

While you're right about the change in meaning of "meat", mincemeat did actually contain meat, the kind with four legs, well into the 19th century.

And of course it still does, in a way - suet.

UncleSlacky• 5 years ago

Also, the use of "rooster" in the US instead of "cock" or "cockerel" which is still common in UK/Commonwealth English.

weimerica• 5 years ago

Living near the University of South Carolina (Gamecocks), always tickled my inner twelve year old to see a constant stream of garnet hats with "Cocks" on them.

area51org• 5 years ago

It's amazing how many people still fall for the 'fuck-as-acronym' myths. I've literally argued with people convinced that FUCK stands for Fornication Under Consent of the King, or (as Van Halen apparently believed) For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.

No, none of the above. Nope.

mbg7213• 5 years ago

Knowing the more likely etymology, it's a little awkward when I see the billboards for a dentist in my area named Dr. Ficker.

flyingcircus3• 5 years ago

A city I used to live in has a Hilfiker Ln, named for the family that has lived at the end of that street, which is on a hill, for over 150 years. I've always wondered if that was coincidence or not.

dhosek2• 5 years ago

Speaking of misread signs, there's a Chinese restaurant on San Vicente in Los Angeles named Hunan Taste. More than one person has mistaken that first n for an m.

banana_giraffe• 5 years ago

as Van Halen apparently believed

Not that it matters a ton: It was a friend of Sammy Hagar (Ray Mancini) that thought that. The band went with the name as a compromise instead of calling the album "Fuck" as a protest over censorship.

pjc50• 5 years ago

I've heard that one for "naff", allegedly from "not available for f--", which is probably bogus but the etymology is very unclear: https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-1648,0...

The suggestion that it comes from Polari is far more interesting, as Polari was incorporated into the great British tradition of using innuendo to get past unimaginative censoriousness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_and_Sandy

DonaldFisk2• 5 years ago

A propos of Polari, when I mentioned to someone who used the word "carsey" (often spelt "khazi") that it was gay slang, ultimately derived from Latin "casa" meaning cottage, he insisted that no, it wasn't, and that it came from an Indian language. I double-checked this with a native Hindi speaker who couldn't think of any Hindi cognates but I couldn't get him to change his mind.

tragomaskhalos• 5 years ago

Folk etymologies based on acronyms seem to hold a peculiar power over people's imaginations, irrespective of how obviously false they are. I remember as a lad being told that 'news' was so called because it came from the north, east, west and south :eyeroll:

BrandoElFollito4• 5 years ago

This is a surprisingly to-the-point "acronymisation", though!

fenomas• 5 years ago

There used to be a great column in alt-weeklies called The Word Detective, that dealt with tons of these I've the years (to insure promptness, port out starboard home, etc).

The author (one Evan Morris) always reminded people that acronyms were extremely rare before about WW2, and so acronym etymologies for old words are virtually always made up (Morris blamed tour guides for keeping them circulating).

etblg• 5 years ago

The author (one Evan Morris) always reminded people that acronyms were extremely rare before about WW2

Why is that?

Tagbert• 5 years ago

I do love listening to John McWhorter‘s podcast about language, Lexicon Valley

andrewzah2• 5 years ago

For anyone who finds words and etymology fascinating, I highly recommend John McWhorter's podcast, Lexicon Valley.

dredmorbius2• 5 years ago

Whilst we're taking and making suggestions, the Online Etymological Dictionary, a true gem of the Internet:

https://www.etymonline.com/

(Donations welcomed and encouraged. No affiliation, just a very satisfied user.)

FabHK• 5 years ago

Searchable from DuckDuckGo with the !ety bang.

xixixao• 5 years ago

I loved History of English, but beware it is not brief.

nescioquid• 5 years ago

I've really enjoyed the odd essay/opinion piece and Teaching Company lecture series by McWhorter. I've heard people rave about the podcast, so I gave it a go.

I felt badly for the fellow, however, after listening to about half an episode of the podcast. It seemed worse than AM talk radio in terms of commercials, which left me with the impression that the guy really needed the money.

That was some time ago, though. I just scanned a recent episode and it looks like there are only four commercial breaks in 40 minutes which is not quite as excessive as I recollected. If that's not something that bothers you, give it a listen.

andrewzah2• 5 years ago

To be honest I haven't really noticed that much, as I just scrub through all commercials with my players.

azalemeth• 5 years ago

Perhaps because this is a book about language’s colloquial use, the Americanisms within seem more noticeable than in other tomes originating on the opposite side of the Atlantic. For example, when discussing the past tense of the verb so elegantly deployed in the lavatories at Trisha’s, McWhorter asserts that the form of the verb that rhymes with ‘bat’ seems affected or ‘arch’. In this country we might associate ‘arch’ with a waspish anecdote by Noël Coward, but not, I think, with tales of self-foulage that feature a particular past participle.

I'm afraid to say that I have literally no idea what word that rhymes with 'bat' is referred to here, nor what is meant by 'arch'! Can anyone help explain this to me (ideally in en-gb!)

wldcordeiro• 5 years ago

I think it's 'shat' and 'shart'?

JosephK• 5 years ago

Shat, though I notice Americans tend to use shit as both present and past tense.

twic• 5 years ago

I struggle to define this use of 'arch'; i would say it applies to speech or writing which says something indirectly, in a clever or playful way. Wiktionary says "knowing, clever, mischievous", and has some quotations [1].

I agree with Butler-Gallie here (not words i thought i would ever write) that there is nothing particularly arch about "shat".

[1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/arch#Etymology_2

YeGoblynQueenne• 5 years ago

I had to double-check the date of the publication of the article: August 2021. And in this day and age the author found the time and patience to write an article on profanities with exactly 0 profanities, instead referring to them by circumlocutions. The joy of writing has not completely left the world of journalism, then (even literary journalism, I guess?). I'm moved almost to tears.

morpheos137• 5 years ago

I my opinion people who believed this spurious etymology were just dumb. For example why would the king care if you fornicate and if he did why would he grant consent? Unbeliveable.

Fornicating Under Consent of King

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