Ask YC: Graduate funding going down?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=280028

by Spyckie • 18 years ago

9 14 18 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

My roommate just got back to school, and he said something about how his department (machine learning at CMU) didn't get as much funding this year. I noticed that FERMI lab got less funding, and some of my friends in Berkeley also have said similar things.

Does anyone have any personal stories or links to share related to this? Will there be a research fund shortage within the next few years?

PStamatiou• 18 years ago

on the other hand, some colleagues at Georgia Tech's Info Security Center got $200k or so to buy hardware for researching and what not.. much more than previous years

gms• 18 years ago

They probably got that from the government (war on terror, must protect against 'cyber threats', etc).

psyklic• 18 years ago

It depends on the field, the professor, and the university. There are too many variables to make blanket statements. Should it affect your decision to go to graduate school? No.

neilc2• 18 years ago

I wouldn't put too much stock in a few anecdotes from your friends. Researching funding varies over time, but generally speaking, if you're at a good school (CMU and Berkeley would both certainly qualify) and your advisor is doing their job, you should be able to get sufficient funding without too much trouble.

agripa• 18 years ago

I'd have to agree with other statements here. As a Ph.D student myself, funding varies quite a bit with the field, the university, etc. However, you really shouldn't be worried as a graduate student. Most well-reputed universities guarantee funding for anywhere between 3 to 5 years for Ph.D students, so even if your adviser hits a rough patch, the university/department picks up the slack. Trying to get a tenure-track position in this funding climate is a different matter ;)

timr2• 18 years ago

Research funding is way down, and you don't need to ask YC -- there have been numerous articles and editorials in the major journals to verify the facts. In particular, Science and Nature have been quite vocal about the decline and its consequences on our national competitiveness.

It's true that research funding varies by source and subject, but the bottom line is that funding is down across the board. The NIH and NSF budgets are have been shrinking (in real dollars) for a few years now, and funding for the big physics initiatives has been slashed. While there has been a slight bump in funding from sources like the DOE, the DOJ and DARPA, it doesn't even remotely make up for the declines in the other areas (and most researchers can't get that money, anyway).

I did my PhD at a major research school. As of late last year, they were quietly laying off staff (techs and staff scientists), reducing enrollment in the graduate programs, and increasing the teaching requirements of the remaining students (in order to offload their costs onto the university, away from grants). Moreover, the faculty are basically constantly writing grants, because the funding rate is so exceptionally low.

Now is not a good time to be in science.

robg4• 18 years ago

You're right, especially w/r to NIH and NSF, but the DARPA vein is very rich. Still, if you're accepted into a reputable program, you're guaranteed funding for four or five years.

Don't forget how much of this is driven by the president's budget office. Not surprisingly. this administration isn't interested in science.

gaius• 18 years ago

Ermm, I'm not sure the assertions that the DARPA vein is very rich and this administration isn't interested in science are logically consistent. Where does DARPA money come from exactly?

timr2• 18 years ago

"Still, if you're accepted into a reputable program, you're guaranteed funding for four or five years."

That's not as true as you think it is.

It's important to know the source of the funding. Most schools (even reputable schools) make a guarantee that's tantamount to "we won't kick you out for lack of funding". Notably, that doesn't mean that you'll be funded to do research (hello, grading!), or even that they'll try to find you funding if you should happen to run out.

There are many ways to go wrong with this. The way that it usually works is that you're "guaranteed" funding for your first 2-3 years, and that money will come from a departmental slush fund for grad student training. After that, you've (hopefully) passed your exams and selected an advisor, and from then on, your funding is coming from his/her budget.

Woe to the fourth-year PhD student whose advisor loses funding! It can happen; I've seen it. Likewise, you're equally screwed if you happen to have a falling-out with your advisor after the departmental funding runs out. If you're viewed as a problem student, they won't necessarily kick you out, but they'll play a game of financial chicken with you, and I can pretty much guarantee that you won't win (I've seen this, too). It can also affect your ability to find a new advisor or collaborations; it's easy to become persona non grata when you're an under-funded grad student.

However, these are worst-case scenarios. Most commonly, you just get screwed by having to teach a lot more than you originally bargained. This is a terrible thing to do to a fifth- or sixth-year PhD student (who is also usually looking for jobs, writing a dissertation, publishing papers, etc.), but c'est la vie. You rarely see the blunt end of the funding stick until it's too late to do anything about it.

hugh• 18 years ago

As I understand it, in addition to any other problems there's currently short-term budget problems with many Federal grants. Various spending bills are being held up in Congress while Congress waits to see who the next President is going to be, and many researchers currently have grants which have been officially awarded, but which they still can't spend.

Expect this short-term clusterfuck to clear itself eventually sometime after November regardless of who wins.

Ask YC: Graduate funding going down?

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