Gamification, life, and the pursuit of a gold badge

http://web.eecs.utk.edu/~azh/blog/gamification.html

by pavehawk2007 • 5 years ago

35 11 5 years ago

web.eecs.utk.edu

h2odragon• 5 years ago

I know I'm nuts; but this makes (no sense at all* to me. Never has. Why is the "merit badge" more motivating than learning how to do the thing? How are "achievements" in a game even a goal?

It seems to me the roots of this is the desire to please others before oneself. To use the "gamified" activity as a substitute for interaction with other people by making it seem to have some connection to anyone but just oneself.

6gvONxR4sf7o• 5 years ago

Why does a bronze medal seem so much more significant than fourth place?

MD87• 5 years ago

Merit badges and achievements are boolean: you don't have them, then you do a thing, and suddenly you do.

Learning something tends to be a gradual uphill climb: through practice and repetition you slowly become better. There are very few inherent concrete goals or thresholds, and it's generally fairly difficult to notice yourself improving because it takes place over a longer time period.

I struggle with perfectionism, which means while I enjoy learning I'm never hugely satisfied with the outcome. You can always bake a better cake, write better code, or whatever. But when you get that 'ding' of an achievement there's nothing even the most annoying bit of my head can argue about: I did the thing; there's no way to improve on it further. Annoyingly, that's far more satisfying for me.

andrei_says_• 5 years ago

It doesn’t really motivate, it’s a feeble attempt to boost motivation via extrinsic motivation.

Unfortunately (or fortunately), extrinsic motivation doesn’t work long term, doesn’t work if the extrinsic motivation stops, and most importantly, kills intrinsic motivation.

See Alfie Kohn’s book Punished by Rewards, containing dozens of pages of research proving the above.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punished_by_Rewards

Extrinsic motivation is short term, naive, and harmful - but people trying to control the uncontrollable still like it and use it because it gives them the illusion of control.

It does not serve the learners.

npteljes2• 5 years ago

Some people respond more than others. I personally don't care about "achievements" in games at all, despite playing quite a lot of them. However, several of my friends play for achievements often, or alter their behavior so that they get more achievements while playing.

I like the point you bring up. That badges and such make gaming seem less of a wasted time. I know people who can't tolerate open ended games for this reason: no clear goals. Minecraft added The End dimension specifically because of people like this, so that they can "finish" the game.

It has links to status as well I think. Even the name achievements and badges reflect this, and also they're often featured on the profile of the player, so that people can quickly compare others and themselves.

Brendinooo• 5 years ago

I wrestle with this subject. On the one hand, I hate that I’m being manipulated by artificial constructs. But on the other hand, a lot of these are harmless and fun, and sometimes even useful.

I mean, fiction stories are equally a waste of time, right? A good one manipulates your emotions, gives you something to latch onto, makes you read to the end, and is ultimately something you could have done without. You could say this of pretty much anything that doesn’t fulfill your basic needs.

firethief• 5 years ago

On the one hand, I hate that I’m being manipulated by artificial constructs.

If you care mainly about things that wouldn't matter (or even make sense) if you were the only human, that ship had sailed. Might as well use it consciously.

npteljes2• 5 years ago

Good stories have some meaning, or lesson in them, experience behind them, something they want to tell. "Manipulating" the emotions, making you read to the end etc are just ways to make the lesson easier to grasp. Play, as an activity, is useful to prepare for real situations, and similarly stories, I think, are helping so that you don't need to gather every experience first-hand. Of course there are many "junk stories where the lesson is not present, is outdated or downright harmful, but the stories, in general, are not time-wasters at all.

runj__• 5 years ago

I fall for badges and XP, I know it's not real but it triggers something in me. Duolingo have an anniversary "event" in June and I practiced more than ever to get a silly badge, same things with the streaks, I have no real reason to to a lesson on a Saturday when I have a hangover, I have _negative_ reasons to do so. And yet, that streak...

The McDonalds app also uses points but I'm not that interested in purchasing 10 Big Macs to get a free Happy Meal, but if they had streaks...

partomniscient• 5 years ago

Duolingo had the opposite effect on me. It started nagging me often enough to do things I stopped using it.

lcall• 5 years ago

Carefully and well-choosing a purpose in live helps with so many things. To be successful, we must learn to act rather than being acted upon. To bring joy and stability, I think it needs to be realistic and at least partly or largely unselfish. I wrote more on past related HN discussions, and many more thoughts (in profile).

Gamification, life, and the pursuit of a gold badge

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