Germany suspends use of AstraZeneca vaccine, along with Italy, France, Spain

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-suspends-use-of-astrazeneca-vaccine-along-with-italy-france-spain/a-56878920

by vladoh • 5 years ago

18 23 5 years ago

dw.com

reddotX• 5 years ago

Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Netherlands, Norway, Iceland, Bulgaria, Portugal etc

jansan3• 5 years ago

Thailand, South Africa, DRC

Haemm0r• 5 years ago

Except UK, Austria etc

dean177• 5 years ago

"What we know is 17 million people have received the vaccine and 37 people have developed these blood clots. That corresponds to .0002% of actually anybody that has been vaccinated getting a blood clot,"

qalmakka4• 5 years ago

Even if these deaths are in any way related to the AZ vaccine, it is still VASTLY less dangerous than risking getting the virus itself, which has a clear and well known risk of ending in the ICU, fighting for your life.

Huwyt_Nashi031• 5 years ago

Is it? Genuine question, I don't have the numbers, but my gut says it's a close one.

How many of those 17 million would have never even caught the bug? And how many of those will get it anyway, even with the vaccine? How many of those would have developed symptoms? How many of those had serious underlying health problems that may have escalated those symptoms to ICU necessity? And how many of those would have succumbed?

It can't possibly be "VASTLY" more than 0.0002%, right?

geospeck• 5 years ago

Is this related to the Northern Ireland protocol?

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/15/europe/eu-uk-brexit-grace...

qalmakka4• 5 years ago

This is really dangerous, and it really risks being the literal spanner in the works for the already compromised EU vaccine program.

I find really likely that, no matter the result of the EMA's investigation, the already pretty skeptic population of certain countries will outright refuse being inoculated with the AZ jab from now on, making the goal of vaccinating everyone in the EU before summer absolutely impossible to reach.

consumer451• 5 years ago

Devil’s advocate:

With the clots in the news from legitimate sources, pushing through with the AZ vaccine could increase public distrust of vaccines in general.

wsc981• 5 years ago

I find really likely that, no matter the result of the EMA's investigation, the already pretty skeptic population of certain countries will outright refuse being inoculated with the AZ jab from now on, making the goal of vaccinating everyone in the EU before summer absolutely impossible to reach.

Just speaking for myself: I was never planning to take a covid vaccine. And neither my sister and brothers are. My girlfriend also doesn't want any covid vaccine and our daughter will not get one either. I did help my grandmother to get her vaccine this week though and I believe for her it might make sense.

I am pretty healthy (not overweight) and don't have any comorbidities (diabetes and such), so I don't see a reason why I need this vaccine. And I would guess the reasoning is the same for my sister and my brothers and my girlfriend.

For comparison: for the flu virus we also don't try to get the whole population vaccinated, only the "at risk" groups.

qalmakka4• 5 years ago

I am pretty healthy (not overweight) and don't have any comorbidities (diabetes and such), so I don't see a reason why I need this vaccine

Being healthy is not a certain indicator that the illness is going to be mild for you. It will most likely be light, but there's no guarantee about this being true.

And even if you don't end up in the ICU, you still risk complications which may hamper your health long term (see "long Covid"), or that could cause you long-term issues like an hampered sense of taste and smell. This is mostly avoidable by getting inoculated with one of the vaccines, which while they might not reduce to zero your chances of getting sick, they will basically zero any chance you have of serious complications. It's also very likely vaccinated people are less infectious after a jab.

All of this comes at the cost of a really small potential risk of side effects, each of one ostensibly much less likely than the chance of getting seriously sick due to the virus itself.

About the flu: we don't need to vaccinate everyone every year because usually people get one strain of the flu or another during their lives. Sars-CoV-II, on the other hand, is a completely new virus. See for instance what happened when during the Columbian exchange, where Rhinoviruses were introduced by the Europeans in the Americas. The natives had no kind of immunity for the common cold, so millions of people got seriously sick and died from an infection that did basically nothing to the Europeans.

Also, I must say it's morally reprehensible to not getting vaccinated during a pandemic, unless you plan staying isolated until the emergency ends (i.e even if and when the vaccinated will go out, you should still stay home). While you might not _need_ the jab, you could still spread the virus and help the infection reach new hosts. Vaccines are never 100% effective, some people with compromised immune systems do not develop strong antibodies, and that's why it is crucial to vaccinate everyone, both healthy and vulnerable.

vladoh• 5 years ago

Yes, this will probably happen. Many people in Germany already didn't want it, because of it's worse efficiency...

bsimpson• 5 years ago

Dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26467045

offby37years• 5 years ago

Now halted in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Thailand, the Netherlands, Norway, Iceland, Congo and Bulgaria.

Meanwhile Trudeau has the gall to assure the AstraZeneca vaccine is "safe and effective": https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-astrazeneca-safe-1....

ptaipale• 5 years ago

European Medical Agency still says AZ should go ahead. And, thankfully, several EU countries still do continue (including mine, Finland).

https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/astrazeneca-vaccine-saf...

jedberg• 5 years ago

Three weeks ago I was debating someone here on HN, defending the FDAs choice to deny approval of the AZ vaccine. I pointed out that while the FDA can be conservative compared to the EU, they have a strong track record of being right.

Thalidomide is the most well known example, but there are many others:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumiracoxib -- Approved in Europe, not the USA. Withdrawn from sales due to side effects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimelidine -- Same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolrestat -- Approved in Europe, failed stage 3 clinical in the USA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimonabant -- Approved in Europe, failed in the USA, withdrawn worldwide because the side effects were so bad.

msabalau• 5 years ago

There hasn't been an application for emergency authorization, so the FDA has not a chance to deny or accept it.

Perhaps you are mistakenly thinking of the time when AZ was delayed in ramping up it's clinical trial in the US, pending getting data to the FDA on two adverse events. The data was eventually given to the FDAs satisfaction, the trail has taken place, and it is reported that the results will be shortly handed off to the FDA for analysis, perhaps this week.

jfengel• 5 years ago

Are they shipping their supplies to the countries that are still using it?

I suspect that the UK would be very happy to take Germany's supply.

Germany suspends use of AstraZeneca vaccine, along with Italy, France, Spain

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