Facebook Moderators Speak Out About Poor Working Conditions in Ireland

https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7mqj4/watch-facebook-moderators-speak-out-about-poor-working-conditions-in-ireland

by waynekerr • 5 years ago

151 105 5 years ago

throw28387• 5 years ago

I deal with FB mods in Athens, Greece. This job is subcontracted to tech support company that usually handles phones. Low skilled, unqualified work, done mostly by students for a year after school. Working conditions and pay are ok for Greece. There is no trauma, worst stuff is soft core p#rn. Most of them work from home, as mandated by Greek gov.

saltyshake3• 5 years ago

If they WFH, then nothing will prevent them from 'copying' any material they want, even if by cellphone photo of the computer screen, no?

throw28387• 5 years ago

Well, in office there was very strict no smart phone policy. Privacy laws were big issue when WFH started in march. This company also does phone support for other clients, and handles credit cards. There are huge fines. I am not sure how they made it compliant for FB. Propably sensitive stuff is still handled from office.

But if you have privacy expectation on fb...

uniqueid7• 5 years ago

How do these mods avoid the disturbing material?

The information I've encountered on this topic is a pile of employees and journalists on one side painting a grim picture of life as a FB mod, and this one throwaway account on HN implying it's not so bad. Forgive me if I find that hard to believe.

vorticalbox• 5 years ago

Blind luck or maybe there isn't as much disturbing material on Facebook as one is lead to believe.

ericbarrett3• 5 years ago

I was an early-ish Facebook employee, and started before they contracted out moderation. I once passed a content moderator in the lunch room, flipping through flagged images, about twenty per second. Presumably she was just reviewing user & automatic flags for accuracy.

What they see is: Penis. Pages and pages of penis. Penis in all shapes and sizes and orientations and conditions. But it was all penis.

benbristow• 5 years ago

Maybe some are more thick-skinned than others. After years of being on the internet and having seen all sorts of stuff I barely bat an eyelid nowadays but if you're not used to it I guess it would be more traumatising.

eecks3• 5 years ago

Some jobs should be paid more. An example is shop workers who are front line during the pandemic and exposing themselves to covid-19 while higher paid people get to work from home. The problem is that it is seen as a low skill job. Same for content moderators. So should they be paid more? Arguably. Will they? Probably not.

bzb64• 5 years ago

Jobs are paid according to supply and demand. Jobs that anybody can do will always be paid poorly.

throwaway22456• 5 years ago

This is purely because of exploitation - people work those jobs to guarantee themselves shelter, food and warmth.

If we (as a society) guaranteed everybody enough resources to live, those types of jobs would need to be paid a more appropriate rate, including hazard pay.

zpeti2• 5 years ago

It’s pretty bad when an obvious comment like this is downvoting on HN. It’s a fact, it’s basic economics but also just how the world works.

If you want mods to earn more create a social network and pay them more.

ThePadawan• 5 years ago

Jobs are also paid according to the danger they pose, often enforced by government or unions.

Want to be an underwater welder? Sure, here's your danger surcharge.

Want to be a cab driver on the night shift? Sure, here's your surcharge.

bmm6o• 5 years ago

The job market is not a natural phenomenon like gravity. It is essentially a societal construct already subject to regulation. If it produces outcomes we - its builders and participants - don't like, we can change it. It's true that supply and demand will always be factors, but we can set boundaries.

I'm not proposing any particular change here myself, i just want to push back against that fatalistic attitude.

throw28387• 5 years ago

Mods have very easy job, they have to decidee if picture has an underboob, or something is too controversial. Pay is comparable to nurse in hospital.

IT IS low skill job, made by low qualified fresh graduates, and AI already handles big part of it.

newsclues• 5 years ago

Crime scene cleaning pays more than normal janitor jobs, not because the work is harder but because there is emotional labour beyond the simple job.

You need to consider the effects of work on employees bodies and minds.

There is skill to be treated like a serf for a living and smiling to your masters who claim your labour is low skilled and not deserving of a fair (living) wage.

arp2423• 5 years ago

People post things like beheadings, all sorts of sexual assault (including sexual assault on children), and so forth. It's not just underboobs and dickpics.

There have been many stories about this, one example: https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/25/18229714/cognizant-facebo...

jmeister• 5 years ago

So these contractors went all the way to Varadkar for minor inconveniences at their job, essentially internal disputes?

Upset about not getting the same perks as other employees?

Signing restrictive NDAs for a job with exposure to extremely sensitive company processes and customer data?

The more I read about these stories, the more I’m inclined to believe Haidt’s “Coddled Mind” and Turchin’s “Elite Overproduction” theories as the root of much of the problems we’re facing in the west today.

Vaslo• 5 years ago

I had never heard of those Haidt’s book or Turchin’s theories. Very interesting reads - thank you for sharing!

0xdde2• 5 years ago

Is this a willful misreading? The "perk" mentioned is WFH during a pandemic. The mental health concerns in question are due to viewing extremely graphic content, not at all along the lines of the ridiculous "safe spaces" Haidt's book concerns itself with.

Macha• 5 years ago

Due to current covid-19 restrictions in Ireland, as a result of briefly having the world's highest per capita cases in early january, the government's policy is:

Only essential workers should travel to work. You should work from home unless you are providing an essential service and need to be physically present.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/covid19/living_with_co...

Facebook content moderation is unlikely to fall under "essential work" which is more concerned about healthcare, retail necessities (food/drink/medicine/cleaning supplies), and infrastructure. Given that they've pointed out moderators elsewhere can work from home, it's likely facebook cannot demonstrate that they need to be physically present to perform the work.

So yes, it is a matter for the government to get involved in if Facebook or its subcontractors are not complying.

As for Varadkar, getting involved is likely due to the fact this falls under his department's remit (as minister of enterprise), not his position as Tanaiste. But getting _personally_ involved is likely Leo looking for a good PR opportunity rather than the facebook employees insisting on the Tanaiste's personal attention. Or maybe he's just also their local TD, since his constituency is Dublin West where many people in Facebook offices in Dublin likely live.

scandox• 5 years ago

To a caveman your desire to eat regular meals, live past 45, sleep in warmth and not have to fight to stay alive each day would seem "coddled".

As a society we get to decide what is a reasonable level of comfort and protection and it will always be a value judgement.

secondcoming• 5 years ago

If you are a contractor you don't work for FB. You work for either a separate company or your personal one.

There's nothing to stop these people from starting their own moderation company that provides all the services they're demanding. Then they should lobby FB to use this company instead.

bryan_w• 5 years ago

Here, on this venture capital forum, the idea of starting your own company is absurd.

yawaworht1978• 5 years ago

I have spent a total of 30 minutes of my life on Facebook, looking at a friends feed (I never had an account). There is always a few people who use the platform to express themselves in the most horrible way. 30 minutes were enough for me, there are many crazies out there using the platform for unamicable purposes. No way the moderators worst case is soft pork, unless they are only looking at flagged posts. I am not sure why people think they need the platform to "keep in touch with friends" . What happened to a good old call or a WhatsApp message or god forbid, meet in person.

scotcha1• 5 years ago

WhatsApp is owned by Facebook.

And 30 minutes is a pretty short period to get a representative sample of a service used by billions for many different activities (messaging, video calls, hobby groups, marketplace). The 'feed' that you scroll through is definitely a mixed bag, but Facebook has added focus to more specific and niche apps over time.

For my family we use Facebook because it is cross platform (25 people, several with Android, most with iPhone, and some that like to use it by web), everyone already has an account (ages from 25 to 65), and the quality of the service is high and consistent for both messages and video calls. We frequently do a video call with all members of the family across many devices and 'it just works'.}

Also, meeting in person hasn't really been 'allowed' in almost a year. #covid19

Facebook Moderators Speak Out About Poor Working Conditions in Ireland

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