Neverware is now part of Google

https://cloudreadykb.neverware.com/s/article/Neverware-is-now-part-of-Google-FAQ

by jccalhoun • 6 years ago

172 110 6 years ago

cloudreadykb.neverware.com

castis• 6 years ago

I dont even know what this product is but my kneejerk reaction is that it will be shuttered in a years time.

wccrawford• 6 years ago

After clicking around a lot more than I should have had to, they make CloudReady, something to turn old PCs/Laptops into Chromebooks.

So... Yeah, I kind of feel like you're right.

syntheticnature• 6 years ago

My likely-imperfect understanding is they basically had a free release of Chrome OS (Chromium OS?) you could install to arbitrary old laptops.

43920• 6 years ago

From the FAQ: "Over the long term CloudReady will become an official Chrome OS offering, and existing customers will be upgraded seamlessly as that happens."

So it sounds like there is some kind of actual migration plan, even if Neverware itself is getting shut down.

tsumnia• 6 years ago

While true to some degree, Google's prior record with services, like Songza -> Google Music Play-> YouTube Music, support the knee jerk reaction. It'll start as an official Chrome OS offering before it eventually is shut down and assimilated into Chrome OS entirely.

unixhero• 6 years ago

Assimilated, Resistance is futile.

rhacker• 6 years ago

You would think Google would try to avoid the acquisition by name alone just to spare itself of the jokes about Google shutting things down...

microtherion• 6 years ago

They'll probably rebrand it to Nomoreware.

markstos4• 6 years ago

I give Google some credit as a larger company to try experiments that fail.

Big companies can be come slow-moving risk-adverse creatures that avoid failures by not taking risks.

bigtones• 6 years ago

FYI: Neverware is a Google Chromium OS based distribution that you can load onto most laptops through a USB stick. It's main aim is to be able to transform your old PC or Mac laptop into a ChromeOS laptop.

They've been working pretty closely with the Google ChromeOS team for a while across the consumer, business, and education markets. This deal may be a way for Google to expand the number of devices running ChromeOS.

jcastro2• 6 years ago

I've used neverware on old thinkpads, it's a pretty great tool for rescuing old laptops.

thinkingemote• 6 years ago

Could installing xubuntu be an alternative? What benefits do neverware have over installing a light weight Ubuntu repo?

chaostheory• 6 years ago

Personal anecdote, but I had a hard time getting this to work with HP computers a few years ago. imo The issue is more on HP's end than with Neverware though

wyldfire• 6 years ago

Does it install from the USB flash drive onto the system disk(s)? Or is it intended to boot and run from the USB device without altering the system?

Pamar• 6 years ago

I see that they stopped supporting 32-bits architecture though

mmerlin• 6 years ago

Hopefully this acquisition means they will soon be allowed to offer Play Store android apps (currently not available)

https://cloudreadykb.neverware.com/s/article/Does-CloudReady...

crazygringo• 6 years ago

Wow, this product is... really clever. Especially when put on one of the "mini" USB sticks that sit nearly flush with the port.

It seems like it could potentially really enable massive reuse of older, slower laptops that might otherwise be thrown away.

It seems to me like handling driver support would be the hard part. Is that their special sauce?

I can't see this as anything but a clear win for the environment and for education. And unlike the "Google shuts down everything" meme, this seems so obviously massively helpful to their entire ChromeOS strategy it looks like it'll be here to stay.

numpad0• 6 years ago

Mostly they are just among very few to support generic Chromium OS builds

ocdtrekkie• 6 years ago

The problem I see is that Neverware was filling in a gap where Google has failed to provide extended support. That wasn't something Google couldn't do before... it just didn't want to.

So this acquisition likely means a return to old Chromebooks being ewaste because Google bought out the company that was providing a longer lifecycle.

When Google's team decides a computer is too old to support, do you think their other team is going to be allowed to step in and support it?

Google is likely interested in CloudReady for it's newer uses on Windows PCs, I've seen an employer ship a brand new HP laptop with CloudReady on it instead of the OEM Windows license included. But long term support is likely going to suffer.

michaelpb• 6 years ago

Reminds me of 15 years ago, when I used Slax in a similar way. Glad to see the project still exists: https://www.slax.org/

twunde• 6 years ago

Neverware's original business/idea was in enabling massive reuse of older, slower computers in the education space by making them thin client devices if I remember correctly (back when it was 5 guys working out of General Assembly). Anyway congrats Jonathan and crew. It's been a long journey

markstos4• 6 years ago

I would say the "sauce" as in their willingness to support more hardware. Much of the "driver" support comes from Linux, and Linux already runs on the devices that Cloudready supports.

It the re-use of old hardware that might be thrown away it's just potential, it's happening at scale right now.

My mother used a Thinkpad T450 with Cloudready for years. To her it was a Chromebook with a larger screen than her old 11" one.

ashtonkem2• 6 years ago

I guess that gives them a fighting chance of not being thrown away next year.

harryf• 6 years ago

Thanks for explaining! I wish these types of takeover announcements didn’t always assume the reader already knows what the product / company does

fnord77• 6 years ago

not a fan of press releases that assume you already know what their product is

coding123• 6 years ago

It's weird right? I mean if you were the Neverware people you're just updating your customers about this change. In steps a third party like HN and publishes that announcement, and suddenly it's this out of context, wtf is this moment for tens of thousands of people.

barkingcat• 6 years ago

That's more the fault of hacker news and the submitters of the url (it's a page inside of a knowledgebase ...) and also the upvoters of the article.

Imagine, all those upvotes needed to make this a front page article, NONE of those upvoters know what the company is or the context behind it, just that Google did something, so they upvote.

Then you see all these discussion posts about not knowing what it was, and why it's on the front page, etc.

It's basically HN's version of the blind leading the deaf.

titanomachy• 6 years ago

A lot of comments here about the name, it's probably a reference to Neil Gaiman's (excellent) fantasy novel Neverwhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwhere_(novel)

rgovostes• 6 years ago

And not to be confused with Neversoft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neversoft

the_af• 6 years ago

I've read (and like) Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere but I fail to see the connection here. Is it just the name? Because I don't see any other relation to this product. It's as if I released a tool called Silmarillion and it was just some productivity app or whatnot.

I CTRL+F'ed through their "about us" page and no mention of Gaiman, either.

hx2a2• 6 years ago

I use Neverware's Chrome OS on an old Google Pixel Chromebook. Google stopped supporting that Chromebook so I needed to switch to Neverware's version of the Chrome OS if I wanted to keep getting updates.

Neverware's Chrome OS is a downstream version of the Chrome OS that you get on new Chromebooks.

I do hope that with this acquisition, Neverware's product improves. One chronic problem I have with my pixel chromebook is that I had to disable some security settings to install Neverware's Chrome OS, which causes some problems every time they do an update.

AdmiralAsshat2• 6 years ago

I had an OG Chromebook Pixel, too. Beautifully-crafted laptop, still probably my favorite looking piece of hardware I've ever owned

I hated to see it gathering dust in a drawer, so I removed the write-protect screw on the motherboard, blew away the BIOS, and installed a normal BIOS w/ Linux Mint on it. Runs fine. In hindsight I wish I had tracked down the 2015 LS version, since the OG version only has about 4 hours of battery life.

hx2a2• 6 years ago

I agree, it is a beautiful laptop! I need to remove the write-protect screw from the motherboard to fix the update problems. I haven't gotten around to it yet. When I do that I will also replace the battery, as mine now has a 2 hour battery life and requires 10 hours to charge.

Were you able to get the touch screen working under Linux? How did you install a normal BIOS?

balozi• 6 years ago

Neverware will be nowhere. Thanks Google.

dunnevens2• 6 years ago

This was a nice project. Used the open source variation of Chrome OS: Chromium OS. They have a nice hardware compatibility list. In my brief experiments with them, it worked well. They gave away the OS and charged for support in large deployments. I hope they'll survive this acquisition.

I personally think they will. In a time when many schools are short of money, it makes sense to allow deployment of Chrome OS to existing hardware. Allows Google to expand Chrome OS's base while working within budgets that don't allow for mass purchases of new machines.

For those looking to try Chrome OS on their personal equipment, there's not only Neverware, but there's also the Brunch Project. The Brunch Project uses the official Chrome OS images and provides a way to install them. Neverware sometimes lacked certain features because of their use of Chromium OS, but the Brunch Project avoids that problem by using the official images.

https://sites.google.com/view/brunch-project/downloads

rahimnathwani• 6 years ago

"The Brunch framework purpose is to create a generic x86_64 ChromeOS image from an official recovery image. To do so, it uses a 1GB ROOTC partition (containing a custom kernel, an initramfs, the swtpm binaries, userspace patches and config files) and a specific EFI partition to boot from it."

bigiain3• 6 years ago

They gave away the OS and charged for support in large deployments. I hope they'll survive this acquisition.

I’m now imagining the announcement to existing support contract users.

“Your account has been migrated to Google’s legendary customer support platform. To receive support, ensure you’re logged in using your paid support email address. Google search will then unlock enhanced Chrome OS problem search mode, allowing you to find other user’s workarounds to your problems! In the event this does not solve your issue, please scream into the void as usual. Our support staff will get back to you never.“

franga2000• 6 years ago

I don't suppose you know of any that don't use Chrome? The main reason I wanted to use this is because it used ChromiumOS without all the Google proprietary crap. Now it looks like I'm back to rolling a custom Linux distro...

dunnevens2• 6 years ago

There's an interesting Ubuntu spin off called Ubuntu Web Remix. That boots to a simplified desktop that revolves around the browser and PWAs. Their browser of choice is Firefox. This Ubuntu variant is designed to be a Chrome OS replacement. I haven't tried it, but it looks quite interesting.

https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-web-remix/19394

I wouldn't be surprised to see someone attempt a Chrome OS clone at a startup or corporate level. Seems like all the building blocks are there. Someone just needs to assemble it. Simple desktop that revolves around Firefox. With an immutable base system and seamless, invisible-to-the-end-user containers.

hartator• 6 years ago

Well I guess they named their company right!

osipovas• 6 years ago

This will be frustrating when Google decides (as they always do) to stop supporting the older hardware. I use the Home Edition for my parent's computer. The update process is virtually seamless for my parents and it just works.

What to do when they end support...

notatoad• 6 years ago

ChromeOS has been going through a big process to divorce the browser updates from the operating system updates, so that they can continue to deliver updates to the browser itself even after older hardware stops being supported.

as it is, you can keep using the old hardware after support ends, you'll just have an outdated browser and linux kernel. In the future, that problem should be reduced to just having an outdated kernel.

buck4roo• 6 years ago

Is there a similar project that releases current Android distros for post-end-of-support android phones?

chaosharmonic• 6 years ago

If I were splitting hairs about it I wouldn't personally call the bulk of them "distros," if only because the overall Android ecosystem is that much more homogeneous compared to one like GNU. The extent to which features or visual tweaks are added will vary, but your underlying system will generally be the same regardless of whether you're running LineageOS, Paranoid Android, Carbon or most others. (Some exceptions include Bliss, which maintains a desktop-focused x86 build; /e/, which is specifically built around MicroG; and GrapheneOS, a hardened build specifically for Pixels.)

With that said though -- yes, if you're into modding or general preservation there are a variety of community spins of Android, and potentially even a small scattering of other Linux-based systems depending on your device.

Now that Android requires the use of a GSI -- or generic system image -- in testing, device compatibility is also significantly better than it used to be. That said, you're still limited to those that support bootloader unlocking. (Notably, while they don't implement this internationally, if you're US-based Samsung is out.) Additionally, GSIs will still have edge cases around drivers (since they don't have to actually work on production devices), Google apps generally have to be loaded separately, and even then the act of opening your bootloader to begin with trips SafetyNet -- which breaks everything from banking apps (for the sensitive-data protections this was originally intended to cover) to Netflix (for DRM) to various games (for anti-cheat) to... Snapchat for some reason?

Where this starts to really get exciting is that, over the next year or two, that requirement for generic image compatibility will be extending to the kernel, on devices that are actually shipping to users. Treble's launch triggered a sort of second wave within the custom ROM scene, as it meant they no longer strictly needed to be ported to devices on an individual basis -- a limitation which up until now has still existed for the kernel.

Some particularly interesting details around this are that a custom kernel is required to run Halium (a GNU compatibility layer for Android devices that allows images like Ubuntu Touch to be loaded as GSIs), and that Android 11 can actually boot on a minimally-patched mainline assuming that all necessary drivers exist.

xnx• 6 years ago

Very cool. Would be great if they could do something similar for Android! (Not realistic given that the driver situation on mobile devices is such a nightmare.)

wmf2• 6 years ago

Treble is supposed to fix this so you can (theoretically) load an Android generic system image after your phone loses official support.

gagege• 6 years ago

I was thinking "why would Google buy the developer of the Tony Hawk games?" but that's Neversoft. Oops.

tibbydudeza• 6 years ago

Great !!!.

thekyle2• 6 years ago

I hope this means that Cloudready could get support for Android apps.

Emendo2• 6 years ago

My guess is that the existance of Neverware Chrome OS prevents Google from making certain changes to Chrome OS, and that buying out Neverware eliminates that obstacle.

yjftsjthsd-h4• 6 years ago

How so? It's not like Google had any contractual obligations; if they made a change that was incompatible with neverwhere, then neverwhere would just be stuck, wouldn't they? Unless you mean that Google intends to do something user-hostile, but then there's nothing stopping another Chromium OS derivative from coming along.

Emendo2• 6 years ago

Right. Perhaps Google wants to renegotiate their contract with the OEMs and buying out Neverware weakens the bargaining position of the OEMs?

markphip• 6 years ago

When the lockdown hit in March I used this to repurpose a stack of old Thinkpads I had lying around as Chromebooks and handed them out to nieces and nephews that needed them. It worked great.

I hope Google does not intend to shut them down.

awill3• 6 years ago

This is a little like IBM acquiring Red Hat. I wonder if Google will just kill Neverware, similar to what IBM did to CentOS

markstos4• 6 years ago

It's more like RedHat acquiring CentOS, but yes that's a legitimate concern.

I've used CloudReady to turn old laptops that would otherwise be junked into Chromebooks, adding years to their life for family members that needed very low maintenance simple laptop like a Chromebook.

It will be a shame environmentally if it becomes harder to rehab old laptops like this in the future.

SOLAR_FIELDS• 6 years ago

One other option that I like is ElementaryOS - simple enough UI and lightweight. It's not Chromebook lightweight but I've put it on some 10+ year old clunkers with no issues. Plus it keeps you and your family members out of the Google surveillance dragnet.

znpy• 6 years ago

CloudReady will continue to be available as-is, and we’re committed to supporting and maintaining existing customers.

They're getting axed in a year, two if they're lucky.

bigiain3• 6 years ago

I count two “for the moment”s, two “no immediate changes”s and five “at this time” weasel word qualifiers in the thirteen answers they provide in this FAQ.

I know an acquired company cannot ever say with any certainty or conviction “things won’t change!”, so it’s kinda as honest as I suspect legal has allowed them to be.

If I were responsible for a fleet of Neverware devices, I’d be immediately fast tracking investigations into suitable alternatives and migration plans.

yjftsjthsd-h4• 6 years ago

It's weirdly weasel-worded, too, like... your company was acquired by Google. There is exactly 0% chance of there being no changes. Why even bother pretending otherwise? Does anyone actually believe that things aren't going to change?

EDIT: Like, it doesn't even have to be a bad thing! Sell it! Go hog with "we're integrating processes to make the product better for users" and "this will let us ship updates faster" and "you'll get more features now that we're an official Google product" (Android support, hopefully). There's no reason to go with this absurd premise that there will be no change (which nobody's going to believe anyways) when you could be saying "yes there will be changes and that's a good thing for you".

nashashmi• 6 years ago

I feel the same. The faq reads in summary “nothing is changing, for now” when it should be stating all of the changes that are about to come.

Knowing what I have learned over the last couple of years with changes at google ever since Larry page and pichai took over is that the fun is over and money should now be rolling in. And they are hiding the google effect of this acquisition.

In other words, the project is axed. But the enterprise management is cool. And where google will make their money on this bit.

Also we won’t support old hardware because enterprise does not like old hardware. And it stops people from buying better chromebooks.

easton_s• 6 years ago

Neverware was too good for Google not to kill. If you are a Neverware employee "Thank you" for saving our K-12 10's of thousands of dollars. Great product and great customer support. Good Luck!

intrasight2• 6 years ago

I originally assumed that this ran from a USB drive. But it appears that it only boots from USB and then installs itself onto the hard drive. Is that the only option?

intrasight2• 6 years ago

I just read this:

Note: CloudReady Home Edition provides the option to “live boot”, running CloudReady directly from a USB device without installing. Live booting has performance and storage limitations and does not support updates, so we recommend that you only use this method temporary testing.

8organicbits• 6 years ago

Woah, that supported device list is much larger than I expected.

https://guide.neverware.com/supported-devices/

markstos4• 6 years ago

If the CloudReady and Chrome OS Linux distros really merge, both could benefit.

CloudReady never included Android apps due to licensing issues. A merger could bring Android apps to more devices.

Also, CloudReady added native support for installing Flatpaks, which Chrome OS lacks. I imagine if Chrome OS really wanted that on their roadmap they would have added it already, but it would be a welcome addition to Chrome OS if they merge it from CloudReady.

coldtea• 6 years ago

So, shutting down soon?

Neverware is now part of Google

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