Timnit Gebru’s team at Google is going public with their side of the story

https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/7/22158501/timnit-gebru-team-google-public-statement-fired

by moonka • 6 years ago

26 17 6 years ago

0xy2• 6 years ago

Threatening to resign if conditions aren't met after previously publicly slandering your colleagues on Twitter is a resignation. What company would not be forced (essentially at gunpoint) to accept the resignation immediately?

You cannot make those kinds of threats if you aren't prepared to follow through.

fegul• 6 years ago

"at gunpoint"? Seems like you're painting with some very broad strokes there.

In any case, it seems there's more than meets the eye here. Her team INCLUDING her manager appear to be standing by her and they would likely know the details better than any of us.

I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions.

6sup63• 6 years ago

Do you honestly believe that the journalists at mainstream publications would give platform to any googler that goes against her? If I would answer internally to certain threads saying that I think her being fired was completely justified, I would get a target on my back. That's why you won't find almost any voices against her and, the few ones you find, try to do it in a very "smooth way", always walking on eggshells. People that don't like Timnit know what her and her group would do to your career in tech, in the US.

aliyfarah• 6 years ago

I've never heard of a company unilaterally enforcing a resignation with zero discussion. Whenever I've resigned HR always required an explicit, dated letter. Your statement that they were 'forced' to 'accept' her resignation at 'gunpoint' is all-round ludicrous.

If they were really 'forced' to accept her resignation, what harm would informing her that they couldn't meet her demands do? It seems painfully obvious to me they didn't want to risk working it out and just used this as an opportunity to get rid of her.

0xy2• 6 years ago

I will resign immediately if you don't do X, Y, Z.
We accept your resignation with immediate effect.

That couldn't be clearer to me. Negotiation is bad in those cases because they'll always resent you (and such demands are only made when emotions are at boiling point).

I've literally never given ultimatums to any employer, because that's like negotiating with a nuclear weapon equipped.

bite_tongue• 6 years ago

I can’t imagine a leader that I would want to follow that buckles to ultimatums from their subordinates.

pokot0• 6 years ago

I don't perceive Google as a ethical company and this has been explicit to me for years now. That said that's not really a problem or uncommon. Why would companies want to be ethical? The only worry is what affects their bottom line, and for that you only need to appear ethical.

I don't understand why people are so naive to think they can get millions of dollars from their employer and do whatever they want.

All great ethics leaders (i mean Ghandi, Mandela, etc) had their life severely impacted b y their choices and they were not sitting on the fattest payroll on the planet. And that was the easy part: the reason why they are great is that they still managed to deliver their message to the world, despite their limited resources and harsh conditions .

I hope Dr. Gebru can rise to that level. We definitely need more ethical leadership.

villgax• 6 years ago

Lol, these folks keep thinking they're at some academic research group to ask for accountability or transparency.

torstenvl• 6 years ago

I have made it a personal policy that, whenever someone gives me an ultimatum of ending a relationship, I will unhesitatingly take them up on it. Use of the very existence of the relationship as leverage to get what you want is manipulative, craven, and sociopathic. Only toxic people do that.

6sup63• 6 years ago

This comment will probably be downvoted but this is the only relevant place I feel I can talk about this without being doxxed or persecuted. As a Googler, im honestly happy to see people like her gone. I remember quite clearly what her ideological tribe does to anyone that disagrees with them. At least one of the their targets can't show who they work for in LinkedIn years after they were fired.

You will only get mainstream publications talk about the people that support her and the PR machine at google. You wont get to read people that dislike the environment she and her tribe create.

Thanks for reading.

tasubotadas3• 6 years ago

Well, you have time until the US wakes up :)

6sup63• 6 years ago

What do you mean by that?

prepend2• 6 years ago

I don’t understand this article’s claim that she was fired. It seems to agree that Gebru resigned and then complains about her being fired.

“Dr. Gebru’s dismissal has been framed as a resignation, but in Dr. Gebru’s own words, she did not resign,” the letter says. It notes that Gebru asked for certain conditions to be met in order for her to stay at Google, including transparency around who wanted her paper retracted. Ultimately, the leaders of the ethical AI team said they could not meet these conditions and preemptively accepted her resignation. Her own manager said he was “stunned.”

Saying “I quit unless you do these things” and then the company saying “We won’t do those things” is very different from firing someone.

I can’t find a list of her demands, but it seems to me that making any ultimatums to a company is usually a bad idea. Being upset when my ultimatum isn’t met seems irrational.

prepend2• 6 years ago

Here’s [0] an email she sent to the Brain Women and Allies internal list. I’m not sure if that’s the “email that got her fired.” Deans document says that Gebru sent an email with specific demands and a date for resignation and neither are on the Brain Women email.

If this is the email that Google used to say “we accept your resignation immediately” then I can see how she feels fired. It just seems like a venting complaint and doesn’t seem like a resignation email or ultimatum at all.

[0] https://www.platformer.news/p/the-withering-email-that-got-a...

Timnit Gebru’s team at Google is going public with their side of the story

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