Self-driving cars learn to read the body language of people on the street

https://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/self-driving/selfdriving-cars-learn-to-read-the-body-language-of-people-on-the-street

by furcyd • 6 years ago

24 71 6 years ago

spectrum.ieee.org

thdrdt2• 6 years ago

Meanwhile a Tesla on autopilot crashes into a stationary police car on the highway.

As much as I like the tech I still think we are years away from self driving cars.

Edit: as other pointed out it looks like this recent accident was with a 4 year old autopilot version (software, 8 year old hardware). So it is not completely fair to use it as example. But the reason I used it is because detecting stationary objects should be the basics of any self driving vehicle.

ocdtrekkie• 6 years ago

Yeah, I recall Waymo bragging they could do this years ago... a few months before a Google engineer reported to a Slate reporter that a Google Self-Driving Car would happily run any red light that wasn't in its map in advance...

The long tail of edge cases in self-driving is vast, and each one needs to be individually addressed.

giancarlostoro2• 6 years ago

So long as it requires an internet or similar connection I think its mainly useless. I rather a self driving car that works whether Google is damned and none existent or not. That would be impressive, you download OSM or better maps and terrain details of the world and the car based on where it travels knows where you are despite not getting a GPS signal cause reasons. We should be able to do this sort of fauly tolerance in software.

vmception3• 6 years ago

The long tail of edge cases in self-driving is vast, and each one needs to be individually addressed.

But when a single car encounters an issue, all cars get updated at once.

Just keep solving those captchas people, they really need to know what a crosswalk looks like.

dogma11382• 6 years ago

The more you add to this the more edge cases you create, if you for example add a model that when a pedestrian is recognized near the edge of the side walk the car then tries to figure out their intent rather than always slowing down or signaling the driver to take over you aren’t resolving an edge case you are creating a bunch of new ones.

manmal• 6 years ago

Humans crash into things, too, you know. Let’s see what the next AP version (optimized for the new hardware) is like, I read it‘s due to be released soon.

passerby1• 6 years ago

Humans are held responsible for what they do. But who is gonna go to jail if Tesla kills someone? Owner? Enginneers? Maybe car itself?

jaxn• 6 years ago

Recently?

I have about 20k mile on autopilot and it has gotten much better.

ronaldj• 6 years ago

3 days ago... https://electrek.co/2020/08/26/tesla-driver-autopilot-watchi...

LeoPanthera2• 6 years ago

I assume you're referring to the incident from a few days ago, in which case, you're withholding so much information that this is wildly misleading.

That was a first-generation Tesla Model S, which means it is using the first version of autopilot, developed by Mobileye, from 2012.

So you're only correct if you choose to ignore eight years of progress.

tmalsburg2• 6 years ago

You're assuming that the latest version would not have produced this accident, but do we actually known this?

oldgradstudent3• 6 years ago

Happens regularly with all versions of Autopilot. Here's a recent one with a Tesla Model 3:

https://youtu.be/X3hrKnv0dPQ

dheera7• 6 years ago

Almost all of the Tesla autopilot crashes could have been avoided if they used LIDAR on their cars.

But of course, if they used LIDAR on their cars, they wouldn't be able to ship hundreds of thousands of cars.

andy_ppp• 6 years ago

Firstly this is comparing autopilot to self driving; they aren’t the same thing and you are required to stay in control of the vehicle which clearly didn’t happen with this crash.

Second there is the fact that cars that are self driving will still crash at launch. I see this a bit like air travel where over time every kink in the software will be filtered out. The software will be safer than human drivers at launch so I’m not extremely concerned.

Finally, I guess, will people believe in the statistics or will they go with their beliefs. I don’t know but I’m sure this will happen in the next few years for Tesla and for non highway driving it will be extremely safe. N of one incidents (of real self driving) will probably still happen but as long as what went wrong is learnable from I think it’s acceptable.

giancarlostoro2• 6 years ago

Not that I want to cast total doubt but it will take a lot of training before machines learn all the dumb crap that humans do whilst driving. What if you have a seizure whilst driving, or another self driving car from another company just went berzerk and shifts lanes for whatever insane reason? With planes its a lot simpler since its much less likely for planes to come into such close proximity typically.

thdrdt2• 6 years ago

"Firstly this is comparing autopilot to self driving"

No I was not. I understand autopilot is not self driving. But since even basic collision detection is still difficult the step from autopilot to self driving will take years imho.

"Second there is the fact that cars that are self driving will still crash at launch."

Maybe. But imho that day will still be years from now.

"Finally, I guess, will people believe in the statistics or will they go with their beliefs."

When self driving is ready for the road I believe it will be much safer than people behind the wheel. Systems like adaptive cruise control, lane keeping and autopilot are already safer than people.

The problem right now is that all the 'glitches' are potential deadly.

Imagine all the cars in the world would to become self driving with the current tech. It would be a mess. The moment self driving cars would make less of a mess than humans it will be ready for the road.

millstone• 6 years ago

You who avoid self driving cars because they can't read human hand signals in those weird construction zones: now you are out of excuses!

There is an obvious theory-practice gap. Theory is rocketing into outer space while engineers are still running "please_no_crash_backup3.exe" in production.

If you build a self driving car that simply identified construction zones and alerted the driver within 5 seconds, your product would be utterly world-changing.

Twisell• 6 years ago

Maybe a good comparison could be nuclear fusion power plant. Correct me if I'm wrong but theoretical breakthrough took place in like the 1970's, with operational labs sized tokamak.

Yet the first test breakeven reactor ITER is 'scheduled' to operate in 2025 (if nothing goes havoc until then).

Yeah I known that software operate on different concept these day (move fast and break things) but I'm still unconvinced this could be compatible with any marketing strategy for self driving cars.

Polylactic_acid3• 6 years ago

Theory is always mindbogglingly far ahead of practice. So much advanced knowledge of light like how our eyes see 3 colors and the color wheel that all modern software uses was invented/discovered before we had electricity and plumbing.

mlang233• 6 years ago

This reminds me to be afraid as a blind pedestrian in this modern world of automated danger. I still remember it took me a while as a kid to begin and trust that drivers would actually see me. I think I will never trust that self-driving cars will react properly to me being blind.

Pelic4n• 6 years ago

Yup, this is a danger to anybody not displaying standard body language, like blind or autistic people, or even people from other cultures & countries.

mlang233• 6 years ago

Learning about the "Vertrauensgrundsatz" (principle of trust) is an essential part of gaining a drivers license where I come from. Essentially, you learn that some humans can not be trusted to make the proper decisions. Obviously drunk pedestrians, children, people who are blind, just to name a few well known examples. I doubt this principle is already implemented in autonomously driving cars. The gist of the principle of trust is, that you as a driver are responsible to make sure you don't hurt these people. Yes, even if they are drunk. You are the one driving a deadly vehicle. So it is your call to m ake sure you dont overrun anyone who is currently incapacitated when it comes to ensuring their own safety.

How will this general principle be implemented by autonomous car pcmpanies? I sort of doubt it will be kept. Lobbying will likely erode this very important part of the responsibility of a vehicle driver.

perl4ever6• 6 years ago

I thought that electric cars had to have a noisemaker of some sort. I encountered a Tesla yesterday, and while I could hear it, like its tires and the brakes releasing, it didn't seem to have any artificial sound as it drove away.

mlang233• 6 years ago

The artifical sound, which isnt mandatory yet where I life, doesn't help to minimize danger IMO. A car is way faster then I would be able to react.

Animats• 6 years ago

Now they need to record movement from other cultures, not just their own engineering team.

Japanese road repair site.[1]

[1] https://youtu.be/F0ixyhaWgWM

INTPenis3• 6 years ago

I'm sure in theory they can learn to do all sorts of things but I still wouldn't trust them over a sober human driver.

This self-driving technology is a perfect example of something that is hyped and needs to slow down and be rigorously tested before deployed IRL.

cgriswald7• 6 years ago

I don’t know how it can possibly be done. I can’t do it myself. My ten minute drive through my Bay Area town looks like a comedy police chase complete with two guys carrying a big frame of glass, every day.

Pedestrians will run up to an intersection and keep running across without a care even if they’ve just emerged from behind a corner and the intersection isn’t controlled. Others will act like they’re going to cross the road then pivot 90 degrees at the last second. Some almost cross the road and then start walking at an angle to the road rather than completing the cross. You’ll stop for some and wait and they’ll just stand their staring at their phones, only to step in front of you when you guess they’re just catching an Uber.

Some people wave to mean you should go. Some wave you away like they’re shooing a fly, meaning they’re going no matter what you do.

Some approach the crosswalk and then step out into the street ten feet in front of it.

I’ve seen construction workers who think it’s cute to dance out their instructions. I had one who leapt across the road and then waved me through... a gap of about half my car’s width. I’ve seen both ends of constructions workers wave cars into single lane pass throughs; both human drivers realized and waited for them to figure it out.

None of this is the really crazy stuff I see fairly regularly. It’s just the every day stuff. And it’s all combined with crazy non-standard signage, careless construction equipment drivers, and bicyclists who are a whole other ball of wax.

INTPenis3• 6 years ago

Speaking of waving. That's one of my pet peeves in traffic. We're taught here in Sweden to NEVER EVER wave anyone ahead in traffic.

Always obey the traffic laws and regulations about who has right of way and who has to yield. While still staying alert and prepared to react of course.

So imagine a two lane road where one driver waves a biker ahead to cross while in the 2nd line a self-driving android is coming.

2rsf2• 6 years ago

over a sober, not tired, not distracted, not listening to load music, not blinded by low sun or driving screaming kids in the back driver, yes.

self-driving tech is still not there, but even now active braking and driving systems shows better safety figures than humans

INTPenis3• 6 years ago

Camera lenses can't be blinded? Sensors can be blinded too, by rain, sun and dirt.

Just had to remark on that specific point. But I understand where you're coming from. Still doesn't change my trust level for technology taking over in traffic.

Self-driving cars learn to read the body language of people on the street

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