Coffee Joulies: Kickstarter project keeps your coffee at the right temperature

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/705847536/coffee-joulies-your-coffee-just-right

by tlrobinson • 15 years ago

94 48 15 years ago

PStamatiou• 15 years ago

Team Notifo ordered some for the company.. office necessity. When we were working out of the garage, we had a ritual of making coffee (no temp control on the machine) then digging into the ice chest for a cube or two. We would hear Chad's aunt call us wimps for using ice when she heard us open the freezer haha.

jazzychad• 15 years ago

I tried to retort by pointing out the fact that she puts cream in her coffee (thus cooling it), while we drink ours black. Apparently, this was not a valid excuse for her.

rjett2• 15 years ago

Interesting hack, but if your coffee is scalding when it's being prepared, something is wrong and it's going to taste bad anyways.

I also hope there's a disclaimer attached to the packaging that warns of the dangers of gulping down your coffee joulies.

zbailey• 15 years ago

Disagree. A quick google shows most sources claim the optimal temperature for brewing coffee is somewhere between 195-205F (92-96C) which is certainly hot enough to cause first degree burns in your mouth.

Now certain herbal teas on the other hand are brewed at lower temperatures to keep from scalding the leaves. That may be what you're thinking?

I'm curious, what's your optimal temperature and how do you brew your joe?

thenomad2• 15 years ago

I've spent a good long time studying coffee prep. I'm not a pro, but I am a mildly obsessive foodie geek, so that may inform how many pinches of salt you take this with.

In non-pressurised or Turkish coffee (French Press, pour-over, other filter) the optimal extraction temperature varies between 93C and 89C - above that you'll start to "scorch" the brew, which means you'll be over-extracting caffine amongst other things, causing that bitter taste.

(I'm fairly sure those are the figures that Harold McGee quotes in "On Food And Cooking", although my copy is buried below a stack of books at the moment whilst we redo our kitchen.)

However, yes, 93C is definitely hot enough that it'll be no fun to drink.

rjett2• 15 years ago

Yes that brew temp is correct. Any hotter and you'll scald the coffee. That's the temperature that the water hits the ground beans, not the temperature it should hit your lips.

In a french press, the brew then sits for 3-4 minutes before being served at a hot, yet palatable temperature. Same goes with a pour-over drip or a chimex.

The problem people have with coffee that's too hot is usually related to subpar brew methods, either scalding the coffee grind with water that's too hot (during extraction) or using a cheap drip machine that has a burner that's overactive and basically scorches any coffee that's left out too long.

donw• 15 years ago

One request: Make a version for those of us that like hot coffee (160F).

darrenkopp• 15 years ago

I like my coffee the McDonald's way: 190F

zcid3• 15 years ago

I would much prefer this over 140.

harrisonhjones• 15 years ago

From what I can tell these people as selling a huge lump of metal. It's a F*CKING thermal mass. This isn't an invention of any kind. They simply took thermodynamics. It's kills me they made 22grand.

mostly_harmless• 15 years ago

Not quite. They are taking advantage of the fact that matter takes (or releases) a lot more energy when it is changing state(eg. solid to liquid), then when it is simply changing temperature in the same state.

for example, water takes about 75J to heat one mol by 1K. but it takes about 285000J to change one mol of ice to one mol of water

So, they have this lump of metal, that has a core of some other material that presumably changes state at the preferred temperature of coffee. What this means is that when the coffee is hotter than the joulies, the core melts absorbing a lot of energy. Then when the coffee is cooler than the preferred temperature, the core of the joulies re-solidifies, releasing a lot of energy, keeping the coffee warm.

tcskeptic• 15 years ago

I don't think that is all there is to it. The page says they are filled with "Phase Change Material" (which I would guess is some sort of wax) that melts at !40F. I don't know why that would be better or worse than a lump of metal though.

gridspy• 15 years ago

Good guess about the wax.

revolvingcur• 15 years ago

It's much more likely to be a fusible alloy such as Wood's metal or Field's metal. My guess is that it's closer to Field's metal, since it is non-toxic and has a melting point very close to their advertised ideal.

jasonkester• 15 years ago

Apologies for going meta, but it's refreshing to see that I'm not the only one who uses capital 1's from time to time.

smbwrs• 15 years ago

They "simply took thermodynamics" and created a useful, beautiful product that solves a common problem and doesn't (as far as I know) exist yet. I don't understand what your issue is.

edash• 15 years ago

It's a F*CKING thermal mass the same way that Twitter is a weekend project.

Weekend projects come and go with hardly a whimper. The hard part comes when you want to turn that weekend project into something people will actually use (or in this case, pay for). Creating a compelling brand, crafting a marketing message that resonates, designing the product so that it "feels" good to use, engineering something durable and long lasting, scaling to meet demand et al? These things require a heck of a lot more than a class in thermodynamics.

Regardless, the market has spoken and 300+ people saw enough value in this thermal mass to support it.

will_lam2• 15 years ago

I think the idea is quite brilliant - being an avid coffee drinker - many a time I wished my coffee was still warm while travelling on public transit.

ghshephard• 15 years ago

The keeping coffee "Hot" problem is easily solved with a good, insulated, transit mug. High quality ones will keep your coffee very hot for a couple hours.

What the Joulies do is _cool_ the coffee by initiating a phase change in their PCM, but then don't drop it too far down.

georgio• 15 years ago

I really like it, I wonder if there's any point in funding them more now? I can't find anything about what they are planning with all the extra money.

MichaelApproved• 15 years ago

You get 20% off the retail price.

fuzzmeister• 15 years ago

I'd be interested to see a graph of the temperature over time of a cup of coffee with Joulies vs. without.

vikramhaer2• 15 years ago

I was able to find one through their website (http://www.joulies.com/videos)

Direct link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRpfYAaMRIE

ojilles• 15 years ago

Too bad it only shows how fast it cools, but not how much longer it'll retain that temperature! Or is there a different video for that?

will_lam2• 15 years ago

Wow this is awesome - a perfect complement to my collection of coffee toys. I just bought an Aeropress last week, and now this. I'm really excited for this product!

impendia• 15 years ago

This looks fantastic, but after reading the whole page I couldn't quite shake the feeling that maybe these things are unsafe.

I don't actually think they're unsafe, but perhaps something to keep in mind as you grow your business.

morrow• 15 years ago

Agreed - this bit especially could use some work:

"Yes! Joulies are perfectly safe when used properly, and in fact make drinking coffee safer than usual by reducing the risk of burning your mouth." (Emphasis mine)

The whole "it's actually safer because burning your mouth is unsafe" isn't very comforting, and the "safe when used properly" clause makes me think "what happens if I dont' use it properly?" The fact that the inner material is proprietary and is somewhat of a mystery doesn't help either.

Still a very interesting idea, but I think the early-adopters and overall target market for theses things overlaps largely with more conscientiousness food shoppers who want to know exactly what's in the food and drink they buy.

DougWebb• 15 years ago

"Do not taunt Joulie fun bean."

nhebb• 15 years ago

The only safety concern I'd have is dependent upon the toxicity of the thermodynamic material and the durability of the stainless steel encasement. If there are any concerns about ingestion of the material, they should do some testing to be sure. I used to run a test lab, and we'd cycle medical products through hundreds of autoclave cycles to test their durability to sterilization. Some sort of heat and moisture cycling would be a good idea.

Also, the photo of the metallic bean pile could use a coffee cup next to it to show scale. I saw that and thought, what if I swallowed one or choked or on it? It wasn't until I scrolled down that I saw the size of the bean.

StavrosK• 15 years ago

Their FAQ page says the material is 100% edible, but I don't know anything apart from that.

mynameishere• 15 years ago

Looks like a mild annoyance, like those silica gel packets that are also perfectly safe but that you have to constantly avoid consuming. Also, their cute bean design will just make them harder to clean when cream/sugar is involved.

thenomad2• 15 years ago

I also had an "erm, are you sure?" reaction. I think it was the mention of the mysterious melting chemical - I know it's in a stainless steel shell, but that didn't make me feel safe from ending up with it in my coffee.

d2• 15 years ago

Oh hell, I'd buy this. It seemed gimmicky at first, but I love the marketing, product design and packaging. Good luck guys!! These will make awesome xmass gifts.

dreww• 15 years ago

This idea, while an awesome use of physics, has a problem -even in the cleanest of brewing processes, the brewed beverage continues to go through chemical changes as it sits. Preserving their idea of a "perfect" temperature in order to preserve the coffee longer is inherently flawed, as it will begin to taste bad after a certain point no matter what. All coffee is temporary; do yourself a favor and brew more. Top-notch shops aren't dumping their airpots after 45 minutes because the coffee has cooled down too much.

dot• 15 years ago

could one make a cup that has field's metal (or whatever they use) in its walls? i hate the idea of having something in my coffee and an extra thing to wash.

sbierwagen• 15 years ago

It'd be fairly easy, though you'd want to put it in the bottom, or something, or else you would end up with an oddly thick cup.

erikpukinskis• 15 years ago

They're going to make a fortune in SkyMall.

bobds• 15 years ago

I've thought about what would be the opposite of ice cubes, I guess this is it. Only it's kind of better since it solves two problems, some initial cooling so you can start drinking and then maintaining the temperature. A hacker's product, if there was ever one.

kleiba• 15 years ago

After almost 20 years, I recently stopped drinking coffee because of the bad water footprint coffee has. Of course, my co-workers smile at me pitifully, but I believe it's the right thing to do. Now I wonder if that step will make me a worse hacker in the long run? ;-)

probablyrobots• 15 years ago

They should think about building this into the bottom of an insulated coffee cup. Another good product would be to put the thermal material in a silicon jacket instead of stainless steel so that it could be microwave safe.

hapless3• 15 years ago

This is the kind of device that requires a patent, so that you can tell me precisely what's in your "proprietary phase change material." Perhaps you could also describe its containment. That's what "patent" means, after all: open, obvious, visible.

I'm not going to put a can full of mystery alloy into my scalding coffee and trust that it's not going to leak, burst, or leach metals into my food. Just not gonna happen. Given the market for this product, I know I'm not the only one who will balk.

zcid3• 15 years ago

I realize that "food grade" stainless steel can mean many things, but I'm sure that if you contacted them, they would have no issues with giving you specifics on it. As for the interior material, it shouldn't ever be an issue unless you seriously abuse the shell, but they do list it as "100% edible". That's good enough for me. Lying on that point would probably mean jail time, enough of a negative incentive for me to trust them.

hapless3• 15 years ago

Lots of things are "food safe" for incidental contact, but unwise to ingest. Lots of things are "edible" in small quantities, but you may not want to ingest them daily as they leak out of a container.

Lots of people are willing to lie to you in ways that could incur jail time if they perceive the risk of harm to be very low. I want to be able to asses those risks for myself.

oasisbob• 15 years ago

My guess is that the material is really trivial, and they're just trying to protect the composition so they can get a lead to market. Once it's on the market, I bet it'll be cracked open within days, and cloned fast.

My guess? The phase change material could be as simple as beeswax. (Melting point of 62-64 C, very close to the melting point they specify.) They'd want to optimize for heat capacity, but there are plenty of natural and safe materials in the ballpark.

hapless3• 15 years ago

That's what a patent is for: get you twenty year lead to market.

Even if it is just beeswax, this is a novel application.

zcid3• 15 years ago

A little out of my budget at the moment, but I can definitely see the potential market. My coffee was getting cold just as I was reading this.

Coffee Joulies: Kickstarter project keeps your coffee at the right temperature

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