YouTube says that an error caused comments critical of China to auto-delete

It's disturbing that YouTube has the capability of mass banning a certain point of view with just a few keystrokes, it sounds like. Wasn't built for nothing.

jrockway• 6 years ago

If there weren't spam filters, YouTube would be overrun with comments like the ones you see on local newspapers and blogs. Then nobody could use the comments section. (And despite the reputation YouTube comments have, there are some good ones. People like commenting and creators like reading them.)

ta177117712• 6 years ago

YouTube IS overrun, with low-signal, copied comments for upvotes, senseless off-topic fighting, spam to go listen to someone's mixtape, etc.

It's disgusting - and beautiful. Let the votes and Report buttons decide, or just get rid of them.

The work should be in policing the Report button - not automatically deleting shit.

cameldrv• 6 years ago

I'm guessing it's because a lot of people (possibly being paid to do so) flagged many comments with these words in them, and so the ML model learned to predict that these words would lead to complaints and just deleted it right away.

fungi• 6 years ago

My understanding is that 共匪 (communist bandit) is a historical KMT slur against the CCP and rarely used in contemporary speech. So i'm struggling to see how there would be enough organic use of the phrase to be flagged autmatically. But maybe the bots flagging it were also the bots posting it, or posting porn/covid conspiracy content with it...

soraminazuki3• 6 years ago

What a poor excuse. Things like this doesn't happen by mistake, it requires considerable effort on the contrary.

Google2342• 6 years ago

I take it that you’ve never worked on a complex system that probably uses machine learning.

soraminazuki3• 6 years ago

A complex blacklist of CCP-critical keywords? No.

stonogo2• 6 years ago

I always wonder how stuff like this squares with the nearly-unanimous praise for Google's SRE book series. My colleagues in IT engineering all hold those books up as the gold standard in site reliability, but then really stupid mistakes like this surface in the news.

So, which is it? Is Google's SRE practice not all it's cracked up to be? Are they ignoring their own well-publicized advice regarding the avoidance of these blunders?

I do not want to entertain the idea that the system was working as designed and calling it a mistake is some kind of coverup, as other people in this thread have said, because the idea that a corporation the size and power of YouTube is willing to reverse unethical decisions and throw their own engineers under the bus as scapegoats is horrific.

dannyw• 6 years ago

SRE is a discipline.

Content and account moderation is a cost centre.

joshuamorton2• 6 years ago

"abuse system deletes some comments" isn't a failure mode sre concerns itself with. Buggy software can, and will get released despite whatever operational principles you have.

Sre isn't about buglessness, but reliability.

stonogo2• 6 years ago

Isn't this utterly at odds with the concept of code ownership, and how SRE doesn't take systems into production without owning them first?

ipiz06182• 6 years ago

The night before the proposal of the "National Security Law" in Hong Kong, Google censored pro-democracy searches in Hong Kong and later used the same excuse: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23256470

hintymad• 6 years ago

I'd rather give Youtube benefit of doubt here, given that Youtube can't profit in China and that Google has had a long history of standing up against China. A more plausible reason for this mishap is that, as I guess, Youtube's removal system is automated and considers user complaints. The propaganda machine of Chinese government, or even China's little pinks, may have figured out a way to game the system by filing lots of complaints.

woutr_be2• 6 years ago

Was that confirmed to be true? I saw it pop up on Facebook, but it just said “What Google might look like in the future if we allow this to pass” (or something like that)

ipiz06182• 6 years ago

Yeah, unfortunately. The image I uploaded wasn't from myself, but I confirmed it first hand before posting so it made no difference which image I posted.

ed25519FUUU• 6 years ago

Is it xenophobic to be disturbed at influence the Chinese government seems to have over international organizations and American companies? Let’s hope that doesn’t extend to American politics as well.

throwaway9482• 6 years ago

Narrator: it does

Edit: heck. It extends into education too. We’ve heard about a Harvard microbiologist prof who was receiving $$$ from China

proc0• 6 years ago

Shields exist because flesh is weak against sharp steel, like censorship exists because authorities are weak against sharp facts.

ta177117712• 6 years ago

The error here was Google burning their remaining goodwill by trying to play nice with their next biggest market, for after USA is tapped.

ge962• 6 years ago

Hate to be that guy like "why can't we get along". I can understand when I'm the one in some camp that would be pretty "in my face"/relatable. I'm trying to see aside from IP what the US provides/would provide to China. Food maybe. Vise versa in a manner where does China need the US. If they were to somehow "strike the mainland" whether by lack of supply, etc... what would they do when US is out of the picture, use other countries? It's hard to see the "good" with regard to my initial comment I guess I am just naive... sure I have running water/access to knowledge but do other people have that, there are always bad people... it'll be interesting to see what happens. Also more on topic, seems they seal everything on their end anyway why YouTube. And with "truly" decentralized technology not biased by nationality that would be interesting. Not sure how, data pipelines, machines, etc... nothing is guaranteed to be "secure"/not tampered, encryption maybe, even that "do you personally know every single line of code" sounds conspiratorial ha.

masonic• 6 years ago

"We apologise for the fault in the subtitles. Those responsible have been sacked."

YouTube says that an error caused comments critical of China to auto-delete

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