Studies find having kids makes people less happy

http://www.newsweek.com/id/143792

by cmcginnis • 18 years ago

37 61 18 years ago

newsweek.com

newt0311• 18 years ago

wrong. See http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2008/06/selection_bias_1...

smanek• 18 years ago

You're wrong.

The article cites longitudinal studies showing randomly selected couples are happier before they have kids and after kids leave the house than while the kids are home. It shows a significant portion of randomly selected parents would rather do chores (e.g., grocery shopping) than spend time with their kids. Neither of those is adequately explained by selection bias.

Selection bias may explain why childless couples, on average, are happier than couples with children. But not any of the dozens of corroborating data points presented in the article.

electromagnetic2• 18 years ago

Agreed, happiness has been proven to be subjective. Paraplegics are happy 1 year after their disability causing accident, so wouldn't parents of newborns be the same? It's not a change in circumstances that makes the paraplegics happy, they're still disabled, they didn't magically gain the ability to walk and just not mention it so they keep getting disability. No the paraplegics happiness is subjective, they become happy being a paraplegic just as a parent of a newborn will become happy being a parent.

It's also safe to assume you'll only be happy for a year after your kids leave, and this likely explains the newlywed syndrome that they're happy for the first year and then reality kicks in.

qaexl2• 18 years ago

Going further with this, it also subtly screws up the kid when the kid feels he is responsible for his parents' happiness.

This study shouldn't be that surprising. It is adequately explained by Fruedian/Jungnian psychological theories.

Tichy2• 18 years ago

Don't forget cognitive dissonance: if you have paid a price for something, you have to tell yourself it was worthwhile, or you would feel like an idiot. Hence I am not sure if statements of parents about their happiness can be believed.

Much better to measure these things indirectly (without a questionnaire). I don't know how the cited study did it.

electromagnetic2• 18 years ago

Happiness is subjective, and frankly my happiness is dependent on what I achive in life, as I expect most people on here are. People on here are trying to set up companies, most of whom will likely fail as most start-ups do in the first couple of years and they bring a lot of stress and depression, but everyone on here seems positively extatic that they're doing something that in two decades they can say they did something with their life.

I would hate myself if I got to 80 and realised I'd never accomplished anything. If I have kids, I know I'll have done at least _something_ with my life, I'll be able to say 'I raised my 2.4 kids well' and be proud of it. Just like I'm proud that I've moved to a different country.

I'm proud of my life already and I'm only in my 20's, having kids is only going to make me more proud of my life, just as many other things I aim to accomplish will. So I really don't care if I'm not as smiley happy for a few years as I'll be happy that I've done things other people haven't.

notauser4• 18 years ago

It always amuses me when people point to their kids as their proudest achievement. It puts me in mind of this:

function generation(input) { output = input + 0; generation(output); }

Lots of activity, no progress. Your greatest achievement should be something you did that any kids you have would be proud of. Merely spwaning offspring is something that anyone can do - and some of the best kids in every generation come from the worst homes so 'doing it right' is hardly a value added activity.

qaexl2• 18 years ago

Sadly, in some cases it is

function generation(input) { output = input - 1; generation(output); }

... particularly in cases of dysfunctional families.

a10• 18 years ago

Raising a child is a lot more than "spwaning offspring." You're obviously not a parent and have no appreciation for what your parents have done for you.

In the meantime keep playing halo and wanking to online porn.

davidw3• 18 years ago

Your first sentence is accurate, the second is kind of nasty and distracts from your message:

> Raising a child is a lot more than "spwaning offspring."

which is very important. Most anyone can reproduce, but raising a child is something that takes skill and effort.

notauser4• 18 years ago

Insisting that only parents can have opinions on the subject of kids is a bit odd. I would bet that you have an opinion on nuclear power, despite never having built a reactor in your back yard.

Society pays quite a lot towards the cost of children as well (depending on where you are). For example here roughly 10% of income is taxed to pay for universal healthcare, of which a large chunk goes to subsidised and free care for children. If society is picking up part of the bills it should get part of the credit.

(And I don't play Halo, nor am I single. I'm not even that young. Ad hominem is the lowest form of argument.)

astine2• 18 years ago

Dude, chill. Not every one who is childless plays Halo and not everyone who plays Halo is childless.

Ditto with the porn.

mattmaroon2• 18 years ago

Judging from what you see if you walk into a Wal Mart, anyone can raise a child too. They maybe can't do a good job of it, but I'd wager they'll be just as convinced they did as you are.

axod5• 18 years ago

So by your logic, why have a girlfriend either?

notauser4• 18 years ago

Because it's fun? Not everything you do has to be an achievement - in fact you would look pretty odd saying 'my greatest achievement was having a girlfriend'.

There isn't really anything wrong with just having fun, but the human race would be better off if people had more of a sense of perspective.

bmj• 18 years ago

There is always lots of talk 'round these parts about "how are you going to change the world?" Many people, parents included, don't realize that the simple act of raising children is loaded with this very possibility.

As mentioned below, yes, plenty of people simply spawn offspring, and that's problematic. But there are also plenty of parents who take their task very, very seriously.

andrewl• 18 years ago

Having children is easy, and obviously billions of unremarkable people do it. But raising children well is extremely difficult. It requires hard work, deep thinking, and dedication.

"...some of the best kids in every generation come from the worst homes so 'doing it right' is hardly a value added activity."

And many of the worst people in every generation come from the worst homes. Doing it right is most definitely a value-added activity.

electric• 18 years ago

I'm waiting for this one to show up here..."Studies find having startups makes people less happy."

;)

mechanical_fish2• 18 years ago

Actually, I think I remember an article claiming that having a startup does make entrepreneurs happy. It's everything else (income, social life, stress level) that gets worse for entrepreneurs when they start their own business.

Working for myself has definitely lowered my income, at least for the short term. But I'm fairly happy.

geuis• 18 years ago

Well let's hand it to Newsweek for enforcing a crappy version of the page because I'm viewing it from my iPhone. It doesn't take me to a mobile version of the story, just a mini-list of "mobile stories".

Dear Newsweek, get a clue.

axod5• 18 years ago

Studies can show anything if you cherry pick the right statistics out.

Personal experience says being a parent is one of the coolest and most enjoyable things you can do with your life.

You could also say that "being in a relationship makes people less happy" - quite likely true if you pick out the right statistics.

timr3• 18 years ago

It's pretty funny when you criticize "cherry picking", then immediately cite "personal experience" as evidence for a position.

axod5• 18 years ago

Yeah but the difference is, I labelled it as "personal experience", and not some sort of "study". I also did not state it was in any way evidence for anything.

I simply said that in my experience, it's been great fun... It's up to you though. Don't have kids.. Don't buy a house. Go travelling. Just don't get to 80 and wish you had done things differently.

bayareaguy• 18 years ago

I strongly suspect there are probably a few comparable studies out there that draw quite different conclusions and I think it's too bad the author didn't do a better job of covering the actual details of the studies as well as the results of the overall research in this area.

silverlake• 18 years ago

Wouldn't it make sense to first check if there are different conclusions before you declare "it's too bad" the writer failed to mention them? Google has this new feature called Search. You might like it.

I strongly suspect our happiness is controlled by drugs in our water system, but the author failed to cover research in the area of "I make shit up on the internet".

gscott3• 18 years ago

This article is a positive. Those people who read it and decide not to have children, they are at least not replicating there DNA meaning future generations will not have to deal with those who only have love for themselves.

Reminds me of the story of Narcissus where Narcissus fell in love with himself once he saw his reflection. He was so in love with his reflection he didn't leave to eat and died.

khafra• 18 years ago

I would characterize a person who decides to make partial copies of himself to care for as more self-loving than a person who takes a sober look at resource depletion and decides to seek other means of self-fulfilment, whether that means taking care of already-existing humans or just self-actualizing in solitude.

gscott3• 18 years ago

I am not sure if you have ever flown over the United States... it is mostly empty land. It is not depleted. I happen to live in San Diego, we happen to have thousands of new people moving in every day from Mexico. So if you are not going to use it, it looks like others will.

gscott3• 18 years ago

I just found this article, maybe this is your next town? http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/magazine/29Birth-t.html?em...

tx• 18 years ago

At my old job we used to play basketball once a week after work. I can't say either this article is true or not, but one thing for sure: guys with kids were much less eager to leave the court and go home. They were the last to leave and first to beg others (kidless) to stay and play a little longer.

Tichy2• 18 years ago

Scariest remark so far. I have long had the same suspicion about those co-workers who love the extra-long hours: they are simply afraid to go home and meet the family(?).

That might also (among other things) be the reason employers love to hear that you have a family.

jimbokun• 18 years ago

Burying the lede:

"Parents still report feeling a greater sense of purpose and meaning in their lives than those who've never had kids."

So "happiness" or "sense of purpose and meaning." Take your pick.

reazalun2• 18 years ago

Is there any happy people who live without any sense of purpose and meaning?

Jem• 18 years ago

Me?

I haven't got a clue what my purpose in life is. I'm still happy with what I've got, though.

ivankirigin• 18 years ago

Happiness studies aren't worth your time. Also, generalizations about the lives of others make bad advice.

DaniFong• 18 years ago

Are self-filled surveys accurate in finding out whether someone is happy? I my experience, verbal responses, action and body language often contradict each other. Which is right?

sygzzy• 18 years ago

Schopenhauer knew this - fulfilling our biological urges (to pair off and multiply) is in no way related to human happiness. Where biology and happiness butt heads biology is more likely to win.

reazalun2• 18 years ago

Even having a very beautiful girlfriend can't make you happy all the time. You can still cry while you are at the Disney Land.

All those studies failed to recognize that the state of happiness is not something infinite. And how can you understand and appreciate the happiness if you have never taste the wrath of sadness?

Yes, the studies show us the correlation between having kids and less happiness in people. But remember, correlation does not imply causation.

blurry• 18 years ago

Every single study on couples that choose not to have children confirms that they tend to be well-educated and well-off. If you pick a group that's better off than most in every important category (money, social rank, health, etc), you would expect them to be happier, duh. Correlating one of their many choices with happiness is a classic example of selection bias.

ericb• 18 years ago

What this leaves out is the elder years. I believe there is evidence that looking back on an achievements like raising a family lead to happier grey years. Additionally, having someone to care for you when your spouse is gone, and having family to be a part of seems pretty likely to increase happiness. I'd be willing to bet that having grandkids makes people happier. (all play, no work!)

None of this was covered in the study.

Studies find having kids makes people less happy

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