It'll soon be illegal in Europe to differentiate insurance risk by gender...

http://www.theparliament.com/latest-news/article/newsarticle/ecj-insurance-ruling-condemned-by-meps/

by echubb • 15 years ago

5 23 15 years ago

echubb3• 15 years ago

This has to be one of the most ridiculous rulings I've ever heard. Statistically, male drivers are more dangerous, so why should women now subsidise this behaviour? It's pure ideological lawmaking, designed to show how egalitarian the EU is by in fact foisting a law upon its citizens which is completely disconnected from reality.

In their attempt to achieve "equality" and "fairness," they've actually achieved neither - the two concepts are mutually exclusive in the insurance world. The whole concept of insurance, like life itself is predicated on inequality in the boolean algebraic sense of the word. It just proves how meddlesome the Eurocracy is becoming.

Besides, where does it end ? It's likely now that male pension annuities, up till now cheaper than female ones, due to the earlier death of the average male will increase too. That's not "fair," is it?

robotron• 15 years ago

Strange thing to get angry about...

vgurgov3• 15 years ago

sorry, I don see any problem here.

If the fact that "Statistically, male drivers are more dangerous" would mean that no matter how safe am i driving, my insurance cost will be higher than my wife's insurance would prob make me feel discriminated based my gender. I want my_insurance= f(driving_experience, incident_count, my_car, my_area, etc) not my gender.

michaelcampbell2• 15 years ago

You have that now.

Premiums are based on the groups to which you belong. Some of those groups are driving experience, your car, your area, your incident count, etc. Another is, of course, your gender. If a valid statistical correlation can be found between gender and revenue, they will adjust the premium to compensate.

echubb3• 15 years ago

That would be fine if insurance companies had the administrative manpower to tailor policies to each individual customer, but they deal in generalities so they rely on a risk profile derived from people similar to you. Also, your function is not applicable to a first time driver who has no previous experience or incident count.

toretore• 15 years ago

It seems to me your intention here was not to point out the perceived wrongness of this particular decision, but to provide "yet another case of Brussels bureaucrats meddling in our lives". In doing that, you're purposefully confusing the lawmaking and judiciary parts of the legal system to create an imagined body which you creatively name the "Eurocracy", while this was a court decision independent of those actually making the law. In short, your intention was to rant, using this ruling as an excuse, and not to provide potentially interesting information.

As for the ruling itself, I don't see what's wrong with it. It's gender discrimination, and gender discrimination is (IMO rightly) unlawful. I have never been in a car accident, I'm a careful and relatively safe driver and I don't appreciate having to pay more just because I happen to be male.

I'm sure you can come up with statistics that show people of a certain ethnicity are more likely to be in an accident too, but insurance companies know that's a no-go. Discriminating by gender is exactly the same; it's based on something you are that you can't change, unlike driving experience and where you live which you can.

PHPAdam4• 15 years ago

In the long run, I will get cheaper insurance so wont argue too much about it.

echubb3• 15 years ago

How do you figure? It's unlikely insurance companies will reduce their premiums for male drivers, they'll just increase the premiums for female customers.

PHPAdam4• 15 years ago

Let me try and explain my maths, previously the fee where £100/£50 (M/F) income of £150. So they will have to increase F fee, so it will be (£100/£100) income of £200. Due to competition someone will then lower their fee to be (£75/£75) back again to £150 income.

So in the long run, my statement stands, it will cost me less.

Roridge4• 15 years ago

In the long run everyone's insurance premiums go up. They wont reduce male drivers premiums because they "can't" so they will increase female ones.

This ruling is terrible, I have been benefiting from having my girlfriend on my insurance for 10 years.

PHPAdam4• 15 years ago

Why "can't" they? .. Happy to be proven wrong: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2298570

captf• 15 years ago

"It is a statistical reality that young men have more accidents than women so it should be reflected in their premiums." I am so tired of seeing that line of comment thrown around. It is incorrect.

Statistically, a woman is more likely to have an accident than a man while driving. The difference lies in the severity of the accident. A woman is more likely to have a minor bump or scrape [many of which will go unclaimed via insurance as it will be cheaper than the excess], while a man will end up with far more damage which requires going through insurance.

Also, I've seen report of studies that show that while younger women are safer drivers than younger men [taking less risks]; older men are safer drivers than older women. Yet the premiums have never reflected this.

Anecdotally, I've seen more women drive badly than men too - I see vastly more women on the phone while driving than men. Then there's also the school runs, which are more likely to be women driven, where the driver will be potentially getting distracted by unruly children in the back. Again anecdotally, I've had to make a lot of dangerous manoeuvres to avoid terrible driving from women, who have then driven on oblivious to the near damage they've caused. [My dad's saying has been "women cause accidents; men have them"]

Roridge4• 15 years ago

Insurance companies are loving this, probably rubbing their hands together in glee. Especially in the UK as insurance is a legal requirement and this year has already increased by nearly 30% for no reason at all.

thirsteh• 15 years ago

> The ruling will take effect on 21 December 2012.

Great; we'll get to enjoy that for one day ;)

orijing• 15 years ago

I got the impression that insurance companies build a large Bayesian network and do parameter estimation using their tons of data to estimate, given a person with a specific profile, what his expected costs are (plus calibrated "error rate").

Perhaps I was too naive?

It'll soon be illegal in Europe to differentiate insurance risk by gender...

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