Reddit AmA: Director of the first ISP to challenge the USA Patriot Act

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/fjfby/iama_director_of_an_isp_who_was_the_first_person/

by mixmax • 15 years ago

154 17 15 years ago

jka• 15 years ago

While reading Nick's story in text is incredible, I caught his presentation on the topic & the repercussions at 27C3 in December, and would thoroughly recommend watching the video recording if you're interested in it. Could be good question fuel for the AMA too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDkHPNbCC1M

mdaniel2• 15 years ago

Thank you for that link.

It it overwhelmingly scary and makes me feel as though I did not donate enough to the ACLU and EFF. I often wonder if there is any amount which is "enough."

mdaniel2• 15 years ago

The other comment I have is that I heard him say that one person can win, and can make a difference.

However, there are two caveats to that statement: if you can get access to the resources of the ACLU and if your story turns out, in the end, as Nick's did. I don't want to be a wet blanket, but I am painfully aware that for his one story, there are [by his account] 200,000 other stories which did not turn out that way. Maybe they are living happy free lives in Ohio, or maybe they were "disappeared."

snsr• 15 years ago

It's mind boggling that the greatest threat to an individual's freedom in this country is in fact the federal government itself.

duke_sam• 15 years ago

One of the concerns of the 2nd amendment was protecting the people from an unjust government. Back then I could see a citizens militia being able to violently protect their rights as a form of last resort. These days unless you live in a fortified mountain cave you would have great difficulty protecting yourself from the US military (if it came to that). Luckily the chances of the US military/government staging an overt violent coup are slim to none. Unluckily there are a range of new means to subvert freedoms that you can't resist with guns. Mr. Calyx holing up with a machine gun would have done nothing to preserve the rights he thought were being violated. Today we need a new form of the 2nd amendment that prevents figures of authority trying to prevent people recording them when they work[1][2], and protections for people's privacy both in person and online.

[1]http://www.pixiq.com/article/maryland-motorcyclist-spends-26...

[2]http://newsone.com/nation/newsonestaff2/chad-holley-brutally... - the video was initially suppressed

protomyth2• 15 years ago

I am pretty sure a citizen militia today could get pretty far with popular support (thankfully it has never gotten that bad in the US). I think anything that weakens any single amendment of the bill of rights weakens them all.

macrael• 15 years ago

I don't buy it. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights was built to be amended should change be necessary. More importantly, it is clear that the Bill of Rights is, to some degree, a cobbled together response to the specific grievances the colonies suffered from dear old England, rather than some platonic listing of the rights of man. (I'm looking right at the 3rd amendment here. It doesn't seem like it belongs in the company of say, the first and the fourth.) My point is that not all of the points in the Bill of Rights were created equal, so ascribing equal importance to all of them seems misguided.

parfe2• 15 years ago

Not sure how comments like this always get so much support. We just witnessed citizen militias giving the US military trouble for years in Iraq. It didn't stop until we started paying those militias not to attack (Awakening) aka "The Surge".

And in Afghanistan the fight is still continuing. In the long run a professional military cannot beat a indigenous population without resorting to near genocide. It's too easy for the locals to bury their weapons and go about their business until the opportune moment presents itself.

Professional military must supply, train and fund soldiers continually. There is no "taking a few months off."

Also people who think the 2nd amendment has been nullified by our military having better weapons always seem to assume soldiers themselves are thoughtless automatons incapable of rational though. If the situation in this country ever came to insurrection a portion of active military would certainly end up on the citizens' side.

petsos• 15 years ago

But you just admitted that you can neutralize citizen militias by bribing them.

prodigal_erik• 15 years ago

I've read disturbing things about the goals and techniques of boot camp. I assume what soldiers are subjected to today is at least as effective as that which enabled the Kent State and leaked "Collateral Murder" shootings.

electromagnetic2• 15 years ago

The truth is that the military has very little power inside of a city. If you don't believe me, simply look at how effective the Finn's tactics were in the Winter War.

To put it simply everyone has access to liquor and fuel. From what I've read it still only seems to take 2-3 molotov cocktails to force the crew out of a tank (IIRC British crew were forced out of an APC from 3 hits that weren't visibly targeted), once the crew is out of the tank you either have a nice new tank, or access to munitions that can be used to your own advantage, or you simply killed 3 enemy combatants and a molotov inside the tank will ultimately render it useless or could potentially set off their ammunition and destroy the tank.

The military is armed to fight militaries. A tank, even a small unit of 20 men is no match for a guy on the 12th floor with a balcony lined with self-igniting molotovs. No weaponry on the tank can shoot him and a blanket bombing into the midst of the troops is going to kill most of them and the guy can be gone before any soldiers ever get to him (pulling the fire alarm disables elevators in most buildings, plus I doubt soldiers would ever trap themselves in an elevator when they've just been molotoved 5-seconds ago).

Over 80% of our populations live within urban areas, which in the US' case represents 2% of its land. Even given 1% of the population standing up to fight against their government would result in 2.4 million combatants in these urban areas, basically meaning insta-win for the guerillas as the US military only has 1.5 million active soldiers (I doubt you'd have 100% willing to fight against their own civilians, and I seriously doubt they'd manage to get 100% of the 1.4 million reservists to fight). Given the Finns lethality in the Winter War (6 soviet deaths/injuries to every 1 Finn; note this included the Soviets dropping cluster bombs). On the number of tanks the Finns destroyed ~100 tanks for every one they lost, so to put it simply the guerrillas likely destroyed near 3500 tanks with little formal hardware or weapons.

The thing that annoys me is that people think 'tank' and think its invincible from anything but a bigger badder weapon (IE a missile). Most tanks operate with their hatches open so they can see around themselves as they barely have any view from within the tank, which means a single hit with a molotov could potentially destroy the tank. A few of these attacks would mean all tanks would have their hatches closed, meaning operating blind when inside a city (they don't just have to see 360 degrees around themselves, but also 180 degrees above them).

Once the fighting starts, the civilians will have access to captured munitions. IE grenades, rifles and if they're lucky captured shells from a tank. Screw a molotov cocktail, a tank shell falling 10-stories would definitely be bye-bye to a tank.

jdp23• 15 years ago

Great post -- kudos to Nick for him coming forward on this.

With the PATRIOT Act up for renewal, now's a good time to do something about it. A few links:

http://bit.ly/demandjustice

http://act.demandprogress.org/sign/patriotact

https://eff.org/r.x8P

http://bit.ly/oppose514

shahidbuttar• 15 years ago

"With three provisions set to expire at the end of this month, and Tuesday’s revolt in the House against fast-track reauthorization, there has never been a better time to insist that Congress restore constitutional rights.

Take action now."

http://bordc.org/alerts/2011-02-10.php

Reddit AmA: Director of the first ISP to challenge the USA Patriot Act

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