Oracle forks Jenkins

http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=317610

by DanielRibeiro • 15 years ago

78 38 15 years ago

artima.com

biot2• 15 years ago

This title is disingenuous at best, like saying that Oracle has forked MariaDB or that Debian forked Ubuntu.

whatusername• 15 years ago

The article provides the authors reasoning for the title..

warmfuzzykitten• 15 years ago

This isn't going to earn me any karma points, but the author's "reasoning" seems to be that the word fork has negative connotations in some circles, and therefore it must be Oracle's fault. If ever there was a tempest in a teapot, this Hudson-Jenkins thing is it. Oracle migrated its servers, cutting off access for a week, and the Hudson community exploded in rage. Accusations and insinuations followed. Well, now they're forked. Time to move on.

andrewljohnson• 15 years ago

His entire point is that it's Oracle being disingenuous here, and the entire article goes on to explain that reasoning.

biot2• 15 years ago

The way I see it is that Oracle is continuing to develop the project under the Hudson name. The bulk of the community has decided to move the project elsewhere and continue development under a new name, Jenkins. Fair enough, they are parting ways.

At this point arguing over who forked who seems (to this outsider) like the old Reese's commercials arguing whether "you got chocolate on my peanut butter" or whether "you got peanut butter on my chocolate".

joshu• 15 years ago

All I hear about Jenkins/Hudson is in the context of this drama. Does anyone else actually use it?

cmurphycode• 15 years ago

Absolutely. Hudson is great (I would even say invaluable), and Kohsuke, the founder, is an inspirational programmer.

mindcrime3• 15 years ago

We use it at my $DAYJOB, and I'm planning to set up a Jenkins server for some of my open-source projects soon. So yeah, I guess I can say that someone uses it.

jhonnycano2• 15 years ago

I use it, and is wonderful

autarch• 15 years ago

I just set it up to run tests on an app I'm developing after each check in. It was amazingly easy to get running, and so far it's worked wonderfully.

Amazingly for a Java app, I didn't have to touch a single XML file. Everything can be configured through the web interface. Fantastic!

mindcrime3• 15 years ago

It has a really nice REST API interface as well. One of the ways that API is expressed is through XML, but there are also JSON and Python versions (yes, the API sends you Python code in one version!)

brown9-2• 15 years ago

Yes, my team has been using it for about two years to build over three dozen different projects. Great project.

earl• 15 years ago

Quantcast uses it pretty extensively.

jerf3• 15 years ago

If you are not currently using something like it, start. If it doesn't do much for you because you don't have a good automated test suite, fix that. It's a critical problem in your build environment.

At the risk of speaking for somebody else, if Joel were to revisit his Joel Test I suspect using a Continuous Integration server would be added to the list.

ylem• 15 years ago

We use it for testing some open source code that we release from our facility.

metageek3• 15 years ago

>The decision to rename a project is certainly not, in and of itself, a fork. Mozilla's web browser went through a couple renames before landing on its present name of Firefox.

Bad example, since Firefox is a fork of Mozilla; it started as a stripped-down version.

antimora• 15 years ago

The author is probably referring to the earlier name Firebird (http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/firefox-name-faq.htm...). Firefox is still a part of Mozilla project.

technomancy• 15 years ago

See also: Phoenix.

cubicle67• 15 years ago

For those interested, Firebird is an opensource database based on Borlard's Interbase.

Back in 2000, Borland (I think they may have been called Inprise at that stage) decided to opensource Interbase (version 6 I think) , which is where Firebird comes from. Shortly after, however, Borlard reversed their decision and took Interbase back in house again. Firebird remained active.

In a previous life I was a Delphi developer, and used Firebird almost exclusively. It was an amazing database - client server, yet fast with very small resource requirements and as good as no admin requirements. Set and forget. I really don't know why it hasn't had more widespread adoption, but some of the problem seems to be due to lack of good drivers

metageek3• 15 years ago

Oh, right. Forgot about that.

vineet• 15 years ago

I don't know if I agree with the article.

I am not a fan of the whole Jenkins - Hudson situations. But at the end of the day Kohsuke was paid to work on Hudson. Oracle clearly owns the Hudson trademark and the project.

The fact that many in the community felt that Oracle was a bad leader of the project and therefore wanted to fork it is really besides the point.

Saying that the project was never Oracle's will only make companies want to support fewer open source projects.

dmoney2• 15 years ago

In philosophy this is called the problem of identity over time. A ship is taken apart, piece by piece. Then the pieces are used to build two separate ships. One ship has the original nameplate; the other has the original sailors. Which is the original ship?

Jach2• 15 years ago

Non-questions like these are also why a great many people dislike philosophy.

jerf3• 15 years ago

I think the error that many people make in holding on to their belief that the question must have an answer is the fault of those people, not philosophy. How did you get to the point you can confidently label that a 'non-question' if you did not consider the problem philosophically?

possibilistic• 15 years ago

Agreed. In the end we merely moved around atoms and electrons within chemical space. Applying labels to things which are simply transient configurations and then invoking "deep philosophical ponderings" concerning the new identity of these arbitrary assignments is quite pointless.

Philosophy seems a lot like religion to a scientist.

stoney• 15 years ago

Maybe I'm not thinking hard enough, but it seems like a fairly straightforward question to me. Once you define what you mean by "ship" (which probably also requires defining who is answering/asking the question) then you'll have your answer. Under most definitions that spring into my head, the answer is "neither".

(though the ship metaphor doesn't translate perfectly to the Hudkins/Jenson story, since really it's more like you cloned the original ship twice, put the original nameplate on one clone, the original sailors on the other clone, then burned the remainder of the original).

zedshaw• 15 years ago

This is only a problem if you believe that you only have a boolean answer. Western philosophy loves setting up these weird one-or-the-other answers to questions and then spending decades dancing around the real answer which is: both or neither at the same time. Typically comes from also removing the context and timing of asking the question.

I'd answer the above question: "They are both the original ship, and not the original at the same time." But, this baffles people who believe that you can't be two things at once, even though the majority of truly interesting phenomena in the world are complex enough that they fit into this answer.

Another classic done this way is: "A farmer looks at a painted cut-out of a milk cow far away against a tree and mistakes it for a cow. Is it a cow or is it not a cow." Again, why can't it be both. At that moment in time, given the context of a farmer, it's a cow because he believes it and it's not a cow because it's just a painting of one.

I also think this need to shove everything into a boolean algebra problem is why most software is difficult. If you're supposed to model the real world then it'd be nice to not have to turn everything into True and False.

temptemptemp13• 15 years ago

I don't like your cow example because it really isn't a cow, that's the absolute truth.

Maybe a better example would be "is the earth rotating around the moon or is the moon around the earth?" What if the moon and earth had the same mass?

bhickey• 15 years ago

The cow example sounds like a formulation of the Gettier problem[1]. Gettier wrote a single paper assailing the Justified True Belief theory of knowledge.

    Suppose that you're driving past a field and you see what you believe is a sheep. 
    It is also true that there is a sheep in the field. 
    However, what you've actually seen is a rock. 
    Behind the rock there stands a sheep.
    Do you have knowledge that there is a sheep in the field?

This and related problems are a great starting point to a lot of interesting epistemology. I think you would enjoy contextualist epistemic theory. [2]

[1] http://alfanos.org/pdfs/04_issues_philo_fall08/07_gettier.pd...

[2] http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/contextualism-epistemology...

erikpukinskis• 15 years ago

Leerooooooy Jenkins!

jhonnycano2• 15 years ago

I think the problem is whether the former Hudson community have a vote against a company sustaining an open-source project. When company's interests conflicts with the community ones, which interest will remain? I think the community decision is a pretty clear statement of what's best for the project. In a nutshell, we need a project that works for us, not for the company

Oracle forks Jenkins

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