France Tried Soaking the Rich. It Didn’t Go Well

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-11-14/france-s-wealth-tax-should-be-a-warning-for-warren-and-sanders

by mancerayder • 7 years ago

18 24 7 years ago

blacksqr• 7 years ago

At least 10,000 wealthy people left the country to avoid paying the tax; most moved to neighboring Belgium

Unlike many countries, US citizens can't escape US income tax by moving out of the country, income tax must be paid regardless of the geographic source of income.

GhettoMaestro2• 7 years ago

Unless you renounce your US citizenship.

mancerayder• 7 years ago

Isn't there a several year lead time before your tax reporting requirements are no longer the case?

littlestymaar2• 7 years ago

In which case you need a Visa to travel to the US, and you lose the network of powerful embassies all over the world and so on. That's not the greatest deal.

ch4s3• 7 years ago

I don't have much to say about this issue either way, but it's not as ironclad as you make it seem.

It's less trivial but people can and do renounce their US citizenship. It can be expensive, but probably not 2%-6% of you net worth in perpetuity expensive. Now, you will have to find a new flag of convenience, but you can do that from probably somewhere b/t 500K and 1.5 million in a desirable locale.

dialtone2• 7 years ago

renouncing citizenship comes with an exit tax of 23.8% of your assets. https://1040abroad.com/faq/renouncing-u-s-citizenship/

pmoriarty• 7 years ago

The last time I checked, which was admittedly a long time ago, if you have a net worth of over $100k when you renounce your US citizenship, it is assumed you are doing so for tax evasion purposes and you will be continued to be taxed for the next ten years.

kube-system• 7 years ago

Well, some citizens can, but the rich can't. The Foreign Earned Income Exclusion exempts the first $105,900* of income.

*https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f2555.pdf

mcgoo• 7 years ago

IIRC, the fine for not filing a FATCA report is $100k. I’d guess anyone above a certain threshold risks having to pay the fine rather than declaring their accounts.

Tharkun2• 7 years ago

As a Belgian, it's very surprising to read that Germans would consider moving here to avoid taxes. We're pretty much taxed to death. Though most of our taxes are income taxes (up to 50% + ~13% national insurance contributions) and VAT (21%). There isn't much in terms of wealth taxes.

neves• 7 years ago

A news site owned by a billionaire says that taxing the rich don't work. It's really surprising.

aaronbrethorst• 7 years ago

A news site owned by a billionaire who just entered the race for the US Presidency in 2020 because he doesn't think that the pro-billionaire candidates are doing well enough in polls says that taxing the rich doesn't work. Incredibly surprising.

jbob2000• 7 years ago

We need a new phrase, "OK billionaire". Every time they say stupid disconnected garbage, OK billionaire.

Jamwinner• 7 years ago

I think the devolution of dilouge has gone far enough. It is time to find things in common with other humans now.

NeedMoreTea• 7 years ago

So bring back capital controls. 10,000 wealthy can leave the country - just without all their wealth. Plenty of Western countries had limits until the seventies and eighties.

dialtone2• 7 years ago

Already the case. People with assets beyond $2M will be taxed a capital gain tax (23.8%) from all of their assets as if they were sold at fair market value.

aries1980• 7 years ago

How this would work in reality? It is easier to change and obscure the money trail of liquid assets than issuing warrants.

In the 90s it was not too hard to get a diplomat passport of a developing country, even if you have never set foot on it.

Worst case scenario is when you going to operate from a jacht under a Monaco flag at St Tropez harbour. Life is cruel.

tptacek• 7 years ago

I'm ambivalent about wealth taxes but this article buries its lead; US residents can't move out of the country and still be within a reasonable commute of their job and family, and US citizens are taxed even as expats abroad. France and the US don't really seem comparable.

mnm1• 7 years ago

The difference between the US and France is that you can't leave the US and stop paying taxes. You still have to pay taxes. So even if all the billionaires leave, we'll still have their taxes. The only way they can legally stop paying them is to renounce their citizenship which is illegal to do for tax purposes and at that point that should be charged hundreds tens or hundreds of millions to be allowed out.

The failure of this bullshit Bloomberg article to say anything about this makes it clearly propaganda garbage clearly written in bad faith by billionaires who don't want to be taxed. This shit "reporting" doesn't belong here or anywhere.

pwinnski• 7 years ago

Billionaire-owned magazine says that wealth taxes won't work here because they didn't work in France.

I'm waiting for them to explain how that's consistent with their position on universal health care, which seems to work everywhere but here.

jerome-jh• 7 years ago

The 75% supertax was in would-be president Hollande programme, but has _never_ been applied!

France Tried Soaking the Rich. It Didn’t Go Well

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