I Paid a Bribe

http://www.ipaidabribe.com/

by albertsun • 16 years ago

146 98 16 years ago

jat850• 16 years ago

Is there some sort of context missing to go along with this? It's an interesting enough site, but I don't get it completely.

nbpoole• 16 years ago

http://www.ipaidabribe.com/node/77

IpaidABribe.com is Janaagraha’s unique initiative to tackle corruption by harnessing the collective energy of citizens. You can report on the nature, number, pattern, types, location, frequency and values of actual corrupt acts on this website. Your reports will, perhaps for the first time, provide a snapshot of bribes occurring across your city. We will use them to argue for improving governance systems and procedures, tightening law enforcement and regulation and thereby reduce the scope for corruption in obtaining services from the government.

ajays3• 16 years ago

This is an interesting idea, but it needs some cachet to catch on. Don't get me wrong: India _needs_ this site, and needs it badly. Corruption and graft have become so bad that everyone from the top-most office down to the lowest level refuses to even lift a finger without getting his palm greased. Things have become so bad that officials are willing to cause a loss of billions of dollars to the taxpayer just to make some money (ref. the "2G scam").

What India needs is a WikiLeaks. And a "wikileaks" for corruption, where you can list the name, position, etc. of the officials who are corrupt. It would be a pretty long list, I can imagine.

frisco• 16 years ago

>> Will you help us set up something like [WikiLeaks] in our town?

>> There already is a WikiLeaks in your town: WikiLeaks. The corruption exposure business is [global], not regional.

It's often forgotten that WikiLeaks isn't specifically aimed at the US, and the vast majority of their leaks until recently were from other parts of the world.

steveklabnik3• 16 years ago

It's true, but with their 'maximum exposure' policy, and the fact that they've said they've still got the banks, other private industry, and the EU all lined up, I think it'll be a while before we see more stuff from WikiLeaks about non-Western countries.

Then again, maybe not.

ajays3• 16 years ago

I understand that WikiLeaks is global. I also know that they have exposed leaks from Kenya, India, etc.

But I think there is still room for a local "wikileaks" which is tailored to the local environment in India (which is a big enough country that it would make sense).

Even though India has its version of the FOIA, asking too many questions can get you killed: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/27/india-rti-activi...

der_ketzer• 16 years ago

I live in Mexiko. The corruption here is enourmous, from top to bottom. Wikileaks has showed this corruption.

The problem IMHO with corruption is that nobody can/want to do something about it. It doesn't matter (at least here) if you collect all the proofs necessary, because the people that can do something about it are corrupt as well.

And I don't think it's that easy to denounce bribes and send to jail the guilty ones.

There was a case against ABB (http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2010/2010-175.htm), ABB was charged of paying bribes to Mexican government. There are two ways to make bussiness here, pay a bribe or to leave. ¿Who is more guilty, who pays the bribe (and get no income at all) or the one who receives it? I don't think companies have any moral. So the option is to follow a corruption scheme.

And I'm not saying I agree with that or that I'm happy with it. I'm only saying that it doesn't serve a purpose to denounce bribes, if there's no one to punish them.

keerthi2• 16 years ago

I believe if there is a public uprising against the government and the authorities, they will be forced to answer these issues. Wikileaks faclites this by publishing the documents through all types of medium which cannot be censored by the government. As a citizen you can also contribute by spreading it more and more.. My best bet would be to spread it in schools and colleges as they seem to be fearless lot. An uprising is what we need.

daniel-cussen• 16 years ago

Moral values can go by percentiles. What you do is punish officials in the lowest percentiles of legality and thank and reward the officials in the highest percentiles of legality. Over time, there will be a shift toward the higher percentiles, and then you can raise standards.

keerthi2• 16 years ago

bet we would need a separate site for publishing the list. The elections are near. Hope they get a good reply

IPaidABribe4• 16 years ago

Ajays, we beg to differ. IPaidABribe believes that corruption in India is systemic and only procedural change can make a difference. Merely booking corrupt individuals is a band-aid solution to a deep-rooted problem as they can easily be replaced by another corrupt officer. Instead, if there is a transparent and accountable system of governance in place it would naturally reduce the degree of discretion which officials enjoy today in India. This, we believe, would help build a corruption-free India.

chrisbroadfoot• 16 years ago

Took me far too long to find the "view stories" link:

http://www.ipaidabribe.com/sforms/view_reports_paid

It'd be great to have these on a map. I want to see where bribes are most common(ly reported)

Though, I suppose this site is so focused on Bangalore, it may not be much use.

IPaidABribe4• 16 years ago

Your feedback on navigation is appreciated. We will definitely include it in our next website redesign.

Not sure what you mean by map but there is a section called Corruption Commons which does give a map wrt bribes: http://ipaidabribe.com/sforms/corruption_commons We also have a graphical representation of bribes called Bribe Patterns on the homepage. Do take a look and feel free to get back to us with feedback. It's much appreciated.

Though it is true that IPAB is based out of Bangalore, we are a pan-India initiative. Our data being crowdsourced, it is just a matter of coincidence that we receive a large portion of our reports from Bangalore. Having said that our graphical Bribe Patterns will show you that Chennai, Mumbai, Pune, Hyderabad and Delhi also figure prominently in our data.

leelin2• 16 years ago

Darn, this seems like a site meant to uncover and curb corruption.

I was hoping it was a site where everyday folks share their stories about when it helps to give a nice tip or innocently grease a few palms.

Well known cases would be the "$20 trick" you give to the hotel clerk to get a free room upgrade. Once during an airport emergency, I gave two $10 bills to the bellhop to cut the long line at my hotel taxi stand (the bellhop keeps one $10 bill and gives the other to the taxi stand valet guy, who waved us into the next cab).

I remember seeing on Friends that you can shorten your restaurant wait times by giving money to the hostess, and the book Doormen claims you can get lots of perks by over-tipping your doormen. What I need is a menu of all such extra services that can be achieved and the average cost / success rate, so I minimize the chances of looking like an idiot.

Evgeny• 16 years ago

I remember seeing on Friends that you can shorten your restaurant wait times by giving money to the hostess

This article was very popular on HN a while ago and discussed extensively: "Bribing maitre d' to skip the line"

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1653891

scott_s• 16 years ago

In that discussion I made an effort to distinguish between "bribing" an official and "bribing" a waiter: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1654295

What the grandparent is talking about I would call extravagant tipping, not bribing.

guelo• 16 years ago

Sorry, instead of it being a site where your wealthy greedy self could gain a meaningless personal advantage over others it is a site that is trying to make the world a better place for everybody. I know it is useless for "everyday folks" from your class, we'll try harder next time.

burgerbrain• 16 years ago

Tipping low-wage customer service workers for unadvertised services and favours is now some sort of evil "class" issue that indicates greed and corruption?

Do you get mad when other diners at your favourite restaurant tip better than you and get friendlier service for their trouble?

Give me a break.

poet7• 16 years ago

Five minutes ago I was looking for a donation link on your site, but I completely lost interest after reading this post. The person you replied to grew up in a lifestyle and culture different than you. This doesn't mean that he's greedy or that his motivations are meaningless. You seem like you've got a huge chip on your shoulder and that's not going to help you in the long run. Why would people be interested in engaging someone who spits venom after a fairly innocuous comment?

BrandonM• 16 years ago

You're forgetting that the people that are being "greased" are those same "others." I've worked as a server, a host, and a valet, and I would have been very grateful to make an extra $10-20 here and there. In a way, the rich are subsidizing the income of the service employees and making the dining (or whatever) experience more affordable for everyone else.

leelin2• 16 years ago

Wow, I'm sorry you found my comments so offensive and insensitive (and for pseudo-hijacking). I understand this community to enjoy discussing hacks, both computer and non-computer related, and the underground world of tipping is one of the more mysterious and fascinating classes of hacks in my eyes.

What I'm requesting actually isn't so different from what the authors of this site ultimately want; more transparency and widespread knowledge of common bribes. Once everything is out in the open, establishments can either explicitly offer the higher priced solution, or the public outcry can be strong enough to put an end to such practices.

For example, I'd be all for a priority queue at the taxi stand for people with real emergencies. I'm a bit more iffy on express lines at Disney World or restaurants, and I'm guessing very few people would approve of an express list for kidney donations.

andybak• 16 years ago

It might be regarded as ill-mannered to hijack a thread about a serious subject that affects the lives billions with your thoughts on a subject that mildly inconveniences the relatively well-off..?

lhnn• 16 years ago

I made a smartass remark, but seriously: That sentence does not need a question mark.

Your point stands, however.

rosser• 16 years ago

I still really like the idea of the zero-Rupee notes circulating in India, created specifically to present to government officials asking for bribes. Apparently, in many cases the official is so shamed on being handed the nil bill that the bribe is effectively paid.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1353796

statictype• 16 years ago

Are they really shamed? I would like to believe this is true but I have trouble coming to terms with the idea that people taking bribes have any shame at all.

Unrelated, The 5th Pillar (the organization that came up with the zero-rupee note) seems to have an office building very close to mine. I've seen the bill pasted on the back of cars and can see their wifi network from where I am.

larrik• 16 years ago

It's easy to think that everyone accepting (or even demanding) bribes just decided one day that they wanted to be evil. In reality, they may very well have been pressured into it by their environment, or from fears that their peers will rat them out if they aren't participating.

I'm not saying they'd be right or should be pitied, but it'd certainly be possible for them to be shamed.

jpr• 16 years ago

    This was never the way I planned
    Not my intention
    I got so brave, pedal on the floor
    Lost my discretion
    It's not what, I'm used to
    Just wanna try this bimmer
    I'm curious how you
    Caught me speedin'
    
    I paid a bribe and I liked it
    The price of a new macbook
    I paid a bribe just to try it
    I hope my lawyer don't mind it
    It felt so wrong
    It felt so right
    Don't mean I'm in jail tonight
    I paid a bribe and I liked it
    I liked it
    
    No, I don't even know your rank
    It doesn't matter
    You're a corrupt cop
    Just human nature,
    It's not what,
    Good cops do
    Not how they should behave
    My head gets so confused
    Hard to obey
    
    Us yuppies we are so loaded
    Soft money, red bimmer, so predictable
    Hard to resist, so profitable
    Too good to deny it
    Ain't no big deal, it's innocent

thisisananth2• 16 years ago

Though it is a good initiative, it is not effective yet. In the site the stories are not associated with the name and also there are no proofs. So in a way all the reports are toned down to just say that I had to pay a bribe but not who is taking the bribe. If it has that detail, then that official will be shamed and there is a possibility that corruption can be reduced faster.

But the site's aim is to gauge the amount of corruption and try for systemic changes to eliminate it - I would take even that compared to nothing. So all the best ipaidabribe

IPaidABribe4• 16 years ago

We have got a lot of similar feedback. However, after a great deal of thought we have decided not to give names of people, for the following reasons:

(a) We are not a prosecuting agency on behalf of citizens. They can also directly go to regulatory and vigilance authorities such as the Lokayukta and Central Vigilance Commission. (b) It distracts us from the main task of putting pressure on the government for systemic improvement (c) We do not want to open the floodgates of claims and counterclaims. We want the website to retain its focus on being a positive mover in the larger endeavour of eliminating corruption. (d) Elimination of corruption is better achieved by simplification of systems, transparency and other similar reforms. By targeting corrupt people without tackling such changes, we cannot achieve much.

known2• 16 years ago

Do not fight corruption in India unless you carry a licensed pistol.

ajays3• 16 years ago

... and the system is setup so that getting a licensed firearm is close to impossible (and you have to pay a lot of bribes to get one).

srean2• 16 years ago

This is a gross exaggeration. The petty corruption that permeates is surprisingly easy to resist if you can put up with some delays and other inconveniences. If your comment was about going up against bigger fish like the mafia, then I don't think even that will help much.

Kilimanjaro2• 16 years ago

I'll say it a thousand times, corruption is the cancer of all societies and we really need to find the cure as priority number one. Before going to mars, before sea-steading, before feeding africa.

endtime• 16 years ago

You might want to stop saying that, since it doesn't make any sense. There's no more a global cure for corruption than there is a global cure for people not being nice. Not everyone is going to behave how you want them to, and there's no reasonable alternative.

Kilimanjaro2• 16 years ago

No I won't, it makes a lot of sense, and there is a simple cure not everybody willing to accept: the law.

known2• 16 years ago

Without caste/corruption India will disintegrate like USSR in no time.

I Paid a Bribe

Related Stories